Tom,

First of all, you're welcome.

Second of all, it is NPHC.

NOT HNPC.

Please edit your post.

i take it no one has ever heard of a probate or postbate.

i'm not really trying to understand the logic. if you don't put the same importance on your colors, cool...no sweat of our backs. we value the colors of our organizations, that's why you'll NEVER see any of us with letters in anything except them.

Actually, I never had until GC. ;)

I'll show my age but this is how I remember NPHC at the U of S. Carolina in the late 1980's. One particular sorority (red was the color I recall) used to have their aspirants wear identical clothing, right down to matching khaki raincoats. They had to walk one behind the other where ever they went. And one group of men, Alpha Phi Alpha, used to perform nearly nightly outside my large, 11 story dorm. their aspirants (I think) used to chant and step and perform and we would all gather and look out our windows and watch. It was very interesting but it did not look like much fun. Especially all the marching around wearing raincoats and carrying paddles (I think it was paddles). I'll never forget the chant: A-L-P-H-A P-H-I, A-L-P-H-A ALPHA PHI ALPHA!

I havent...

A "Probate Show" is often used interchangeably with "Neophyte Show."

However, probate is a misnomer these days. Pre-1990, there was a stage of the membership process called the "Probationary" stage. You were no longer a pledge, but also not a member. Generally speaking, the probate stage lasted for about a week before initiation -- hell week. During this time, the probates of the chapter would publically perform songs, chants, steps, and complex greetings of the Big Brothers/Sisters of the chapter.

Nowadays, the term probate show really means Neophyte Show. Performing such shows while not a member is considered against intake rules.

"Postbate" is a made-up word to describe that a neophyte show happens "post" initiation.

Is the reason it is now forbidden because it would be considered hazing? Or have I missed something in this thread. Why did in 1990 everything change? I'm confused as to why an organization would be penalized (by whom?) if it were discovered they were intaking new members (which they all are anyway).

Lost again, I'm afraid.

wow, are people really that interested in what goes on behind close doors in the NPHC organizations?

Traditional pledging has been abolished as a requirement for membership in NPHC organizations. Each affiliate organization has adopted a standardized selection and membership intake process, unique to each organization, that conveys the information deemed important to know before initiation.

The "old school" elements of pledging, such as dressing alike in public, carrying conspicuous items unique to the org, and public greetings of the initiated members, have been deemed improper. Always forbidden were paddling, assault, and all those other activities that are universally seen as hazing.

1990 was the year that things changed dramatically in all of the organizations because the year before, a pledge of one of the organizations died (of a pre-existing heart condition) while performing unsanctioned pledging activities. The Council of Presidents met and decided to re-examine the issue of pledging. The outcome was to abolish it all together and replace it with the membership intake programs.

According to "Black Greek 101" by Dr. Walter Kimbrough, pledging continued but was taken "underground." The clandestine nature of the pledging process arose because students wanted to maintain pre-1990 traditions, some of which were hazing, some of which were not. Undergraduate members were particularly resistant to the change, says Kimbrough, because they felt that they would not recieve respect if they had not gone through a process similar to which the older members had gone through.

The NPHC way of doing things, then, can be seen as secretive for two reasons:

1) Because Membership Intake is a private and discreet process by which members are selected and trained for membership.

2) Because some affiliates are still performing unsanctioned activities that will get their chapters suspended or dechartered if revealed.

If "Membership Intake" is discovered, it can result in the suprise of a neophyte show being ruined.

If "Pledging" is discovered, it can result in a chapter being suspended or dechartered.

I'm not. But, then again, SisMunch is an AKA, so I've always known what to ask and what not to ask. ;)

TomEarp, your refusal to respect the traditions of the NPHC (say it with me now!) reflects very poorly on you, and as a result, you're not representing your organization very well. If you're going to resort to negative comments and rudeness to mask your disinterest and ignorance, please remove your letters from your signature. You do not have to accept the traditions as your own, but you are hopefully mature enough to rise above the pettiness that you have displayed.

Really?? All the guys I knew who were in two diff. NPHC fraternities (I forget the names..) all had to dress alike, and one group had to carry around canes that were red and white when they were pledging....Jett Jackson was one of those guys!!

I guess this all comes down to what is considered hazing. One of the non-ifc frats have their pledges wear dogtags, camoflauge pants and their GLO shirts during their "hell week". They're not allowed to talk to anyone except actives and only if they're spoken to. THis was hard, as my bio lab partner was one of their pledges and wouldn't talk to me in class at all; he text messaged me everything he wanted to say!

Now, if we did that, we'd be gone for sure. Is it fair? No, but that's the price you pay I guess for National Affiliation, which I'd still rather have.

Thank you for replying to this. It helped a lot!

Ok, so I'm sorry for being a little behind the eight-ball in replying to this post, but THANK YOU CK1920 for the shout-out!!! I would LOVE to know what school you saw the girls at, and when if you can remember. I can't wait to come home and see some pledges for myself in person!! And although I haven't seen any Zeta pledges in a while, I must say that the ones I saw at UMCP when I was in school were always on point (although I almost NEVER would see them until their probate) :D

And P.S. Your royal blue is looking LOVELY :D