But that chapter (I only saw one 80s recharter in irishpipes' thread) got a house eventually and has a house now, right? And they chartered with the goal of getting a house sooner rather than later? And there was room to put it?

From what I'm reading, there is just flat out no room to build (from what some people are saying, the amount of room for Greek houses [fraternities and sororities] is actually decreasing) and any chapter that agrees to being unhoused now has a very good chance of being unhoused forever.

I'm not trying to contradict or be Susy Crankypants - just stating to any national thinking about it, don't buy a pig in a poke.

There are a lot of solutions to this problem, but the university has to be willing to help. If housing is a problem for non-Greek students (it sounds like it is) and the houses are that large (they're huge), building 3 or 4 sorority houses would actually alleviate a university problem. The fact that they choose to not see it this way is one of those smack your forehead things we encounter too often reading these threads. Like in this case, I'm all for saving the planet, but 10 trees in the middle of Bloomington Indiana are not the tipping point for the polar ice cap. Either cut them down or make admission to the university more difficult. You can't have a massive student population and nowhere to house them. Or am I missing something?

While it may be cliche, girls going through recruitment at IU have a huge problem with expectations before rush. That's why I think its so important to be yourself and keep an open mind. SO many girls at IU do not do that and end up getting hurt. The deferred recruitment brings in girls who have spent at least one semester on campus and have expectations of which house they want. As a current member recruiting girls, I have personally seen this during recruitment. Being Greek is not an end-all be-all at IU and some girls need to know that life will go on if they don't get a bid to a "top" house.

The expansion will help to solve the problem. But people are seriously delusional if they think the bed quota is going to change from within the system. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but the changing force is going to have to come from the outside. Current members like the bed quota system, and they are already in the house, think their chapter size is large enough and want things to stay the same. People didn't even want to switch recruitment to all rounds after January because it was "too much too soon." So how do you think people will respond to a complete change of the IU Greek "lifestyle"?

This is exactly my point. It has to be a mandated change by the school administration that happens all at once for an unhoused chapter to compete successfully IMO. It's the same principle as saying "OK, the administration here at Traditional Southern U would like the sororities to spend less money on rush decorations." There's no way one group is going to do it unless they know for sure that everyone is, and that you will somehow get penalized if you don't follow through. "No frills" has been advocated by national Panhel for 15+ years and there are still schools wearing elaborate costumes for skits, spending $1000s for decorations, etc.

Could it be that the university hasn't done anything to change this situation on purpose, to avoid the Greek community from becoming a larger percentage of the population than it already is?

There is really something to be said for that. The University as a whole isn't very supportive of the Greek community. When the Panhellenic Executive Council did their presentations to the houses on the topic of extension, women were outraged at the fact that the chapter might not have the promise of building a house. Exec would only say that "giving Greeks more land was not in the plans of IU President McRobbie." She was really upfront about it and didn't really pass judgement on the topic. But a lot of people feel that the administration may be trying to choke off the Greek system at IU.

That can be the only reason. There IS land to be had. This is the Midwest; there's always more land available somewhere. There is even space in the middle of campus that would require a few trees to be relocated. The reason the houses haven't been added is the administration is not allowing it. I don't understand that because I don't recall any big issues of Greek misconduct and I'm sure that someone there has spelled out the statistics that Greek members donate more to the university than non-members, as well as the many other facts supporting Greek expansion. So what is the hold up?

There were several chapters that have recolonized in the last 20 years, AOII, Phi Mu.

And many fraternities survive very well without houses. Sigma Alpha Epsilon, Phi Kappa Tau, DKE have chapters larger than some that are housed. Some of them also return to campus. Delta Chi, Sigma Pi, Sigma Phi Epsilon, and Phi Kappa Sigma have all come back on campus within the last 3 years. As for sororities, Phi Mu actually went 10 years without a house in the 80s. That's the only one I know of for sure.

It can be done, it just has been in a long time since IU had the opportunity for an unhoused chapter. There is so much support from current Greeks on campus for this opportunity to be taken.
And honestly-- aren't the women who would join a chapter even if it didn't have a house the kind of women IU wants in the Greek Community?? Women who are joining because they want real sisterhood and not because sisterhood happens to come with a pretty house to live in?

Greek expansion wouldn't alleviate problems in the dorms. As a general rule, the only people who live in dorms are freshman. There are probably less than 1,000 sophomores that live in dorms.

I'm of the opinion that the University should cut down the woods between Kappa Sigma and 17th street and between that corner and the IUPD police station. That would make room for about four houses. IU doesn't cut down trees though. And with more classroom space needed, it's likely that they're saving that land to relocate 3rd street houses to.

The fact that IU has its eye on the 3rd Street houses really intrigues me. I understand that expansion is necessary (especially given that IU wants larger and larger freshman classes every year). But would they tear down all the houses and build new classroom buildings/music practice facilities/etc, or utilize the houses for those purposes instead? I have heard from some people that the houses are historic landmarks and cannot be torn down, but I don't know how accurate that is. After being inside the 3rd Street sorority houses for 19 party, I just can't see some of those tiny day rooms being of much use to the university. God knows you can't hold classes or anything in them...

It kind of saddens me that they want to do this because those houses really are all beautiful and they give 3rd Street a lot of character. But what can you do when the university needs the land?

For people who are familiar with IU's Campus--- The quad that includes Memorial, Goodbody, Sycamore, and Morrison Halls actually used to be the women's dorms. Now they're mostly offices with a few classes here and there. I think that if they used the old houses it would be for the same purposes.

Hopefully they wouldn't be bulldozed. But that's the plan for FIJI assuming the purchase is made... Knocking it down and building onto the Law School

I don't think you can criticize women for wanting something that is a BIG part of the Greek experience at a school. It's not about a "pretty house" - it's about the fact that living with your sisters is seen as vital, in the same way that weekly meetings are seen as vital. As barnard1897 said, the size and/or newness of the physical structures does not correlate to their popularity with rushees or on campus.

When you market yourself as "outside the norm" too much, your pool of interested members eventually dries up. You either content yourself with being smaller and recruiting members in a different fashion, or you try to compete with the "normal" groups and flop.

FWIW, I advocated the same thing you're saying years ago...but years of reading about the IU sorority system on GC have changed my tune.

I've only been to IU once...where do most of the upperclassmen live? The non-greeks, I mean. Would an unhoused chapter at least be in a position to rent a lodge-type house, unofficially? It was pretty common at U of I to have a "senior house" that was passed down to girls in the chapter from year to year.

Most upperclassmen live in houses or apartments. These are concentrated near the stadium, the mall, and on campus. In my house, because we live-out senior year, people usually try to live with other women in their pledge class and often houses are passed down from year to year. The house I'll be renting next year with 4 other women in my pledge class was "passed down." I think it would be possible for a new sorority to reserve a few floors in a dorm or an apartment complex but I don't know of any huge houses that house more than 8-10. From what I understand, ASA rented an apartment complex in the 90's but later folded along with a few others. Unless land or a house becomes available, I don't see a chapter lasting here long but then again, anything is possible.

Just to clarify, while AOII did recolonize within the last 2 decades, they only left campus for 2 years to "clean house," essentially. When they returned to IU, they were poised to do so with a brand new house in a much more attractive location, after a successful internal fundraising campaign.

Most driving forces outside of campus would like to see them change to Q/T and get with the program, so to speak. NPC did send a task force to campus a while back to pursue the issue of bed quota and several recommendations they made were not well-received by collegians or their advisers. There has to be a sea change internally if these women want to move forward, but do they really want to make room for more members to join the system? Some chapters do, but others are quite comfortable with the perceived elitist structure currently in place. So of course they are in favor of extension. Then, it's someone else's problem to make room for the others.

I get the whole idea of living in and how much that makes a difference in the greek experience on that campus. The problem is, as OPs have noted, there is the lack of open-mindedness among PNMs (who only want to be in one of a handful of houses) and actives (who think the current system best serves their needs). Those houses, in turn, tend to be the ones with the smallest NM classes because of their small bed quota/smaller houses. I've been told by women from these chapters that they like it small, they like to be perceived as having few coveted spots, and bed quota helps make that happen. Pretty sad when you consider how many more loyal alums could come from expanded NM classes in most of the houses that already exist.

The above post pretty much sums up the issue beautifully. If someone not on our campus realizes this, particularly the elitist structure, then it must ring true for those of us that are or have been at IU.