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Rain Man 09-28-2005 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stardusttwin
Let me preface by saying I'm not a member & when I was in undergrad many years ago everything was above ground...

Why is up to fellow students to encourage others to get their act together?? Your tuition bill and looming student loan repayment schedule should be all the motivation you need to get your act together! "How to succeed/How to study" are things that one should attend either in orientation or PRIOR to getting to school. Its truly not up to fellow students to encourage each other to stay in school - if the quality of students is truly an issue then the problem is with admissions NOT with BGLO's being too strict.

Stardusttwin, your argument is inherently flawed in the sense that if it wasn't up to the fellow students to encourage each other to stay in school, then there would be no need for collegiate fraternities and sororities, especially NPHC ones. That's the whole point of the collegiate Greek system: for a group of fellow students with a similar purpose to support one another in an fraternal type of network. One of those areas is in the academic/college retention arena.

Quote:

Students today are overly concerned (IMO) with GPA's and the focus has contributed to over inflated grades as oppossed to genuinely well rounded students who are involved with a couple of orgs and maintaing a B+/A- avg.
I'm not sure what you mean by this...

Quote:

If the chapters at your school were really doing nothing then the chapter would die out wouldn't it? Like I said it was different at my school - interest was earned by all through the programs they held throughout the year. Those that knew what they wanted to pursue would be sure to attend everything but it was not unheard of for all students regardless of desire to go to another org's event just to see what they were doing (even those with no interest in greek life at all). Yeah some shallow freshmen would always make a premature declaration based on the most recent step show winners but they would soon learn that ALL of the chapters were deeper than that & if you didn't get to know them you would never get anywhere.
A couple of things on this:

1. First impressions are lasting impressions.
2. An organization's (or any person, for that matter) reputation means nothing. An organization's character, however, means EVERYTHING. It takes wisdom to learn someone's character. It also takes time. A reputation can be learned in a hour, a character can take up to and including a year or more to learn.
3. Having said #2, one should not assume that the reputation of their org should be all it takes to make a prospective approach them, which is what I see a lot of members ride on as far as whether or not someone approaches them. That is a lazy and irresponsible attitude to have. One must actively build their organization's character in such a way that they make their org approachABLE to others.

Quote:

It seems that today's youth want EVERYTHING handed to them...
That is more attributed to the "get it fast, get it now" times that we live in more than anything else. As Prince would sing, "Sign o' the times.

Rain Man 09-28-2005 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
brownsugar952--

Before anyone tries to blast you for posting this kind of information, let me be the first one to tell you I appreciate your courage to explain it like it is...

Most of the folks that have posted are waaaay outside of college except for the few who are not in greek-lettered organizations. I for instance graduated from Spelman College in 1990. Some of us on Greekchat have graduate degrees from graduate or professional schools. I for instance have a Ph.D.

That is just to say that many of us that commenting on the issues here have been outside of the collegiate system for awhile. That is all I am saying.

As I understand it, you are saying what seems to you what it looks like on a college campus. So, I am guessing you are still in college?

I think what is at issue is ALL of the NPHC organizations as well as others have DEMANDS placed on them from their graduate or alumni organizations, as well as their International Headquarters. It is the International Headquarters that demands that all members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. who are undergraduates maintain a strict GPA to be members in the chapter and we hold our members to that strict code. However, we are unable to prevent members and some chapters representing my Sorority in paraphrenalia at various locations. At best we get outsider reports.

The other issue is the undergraduate members are themselves college students that are trying graduate also. As alumni members, we also strive to graduate our own from college. Herein lies the problem, we can barely get our own out of school, yet we demand interests to come walking in the door already prepared...

Now, that is unfair. But that is EXACTLY what most if not all academic institutions are requiring their incoming freshmen and transfers to have. So, should we as NPHC members have lower standards? All of us say a resounding "NO". We want the best and the brightest... But the best and the brightest are not always the one's who gravitate to our organizations, for whatever reason...

The other thing that many of our young people suffer from not being prepared for college, but the university reserves a slot for students because it looks good on paper for "diversity's sake"... The sheer numbers of entering college freshmen who are African American who do not need remedial education is small at best, especially at a large mainstream university. At a HBCU, there are different issues. I am not talking about HBCU's. I am only talking about mainstream universities.

Most of those young people barely make it into college. The barely make it into college are the "selection pool" that we have. If you have all 9 groups on a mainstream university campus, what straws are you grasping for? Just by population alone, you don't have much...

How do you better prepare students? Isn't that what high school is suppose to be doing? Almost all the alumni chapters of NPHC organizations have active programs for high school students. However that often gets lost in the transition to college level coursework. Why? My theory is you just don't have that many professors of color on a mainstream campus in the majors our young folks often pursue initially, i.e. Pre-Med, Pre-law, Engineering... Now I can attest to that. I am starting my pursuit for an associate professorship at a mainstream university, do you have any idea how competitive it is to get these positions--aside from the fact that "they" don't want you there in the first place??? And this process take a minimum of a year...

You stated "how does one succeed in college"? You should have learned that before you got into college, period. That is what the school you attend demands of you, that is why you were accepted on based on your application. The "entities at your school" have given you all the tools and resources you need to succeed in college, so there should be no reason why you should not... Right??? Do you really believe that??? Because, personally, I don't and I have several years of experience and research to back my position up. It has to do with how African American students learn, in general... The HBCU's have the hardline approach to learning, that is why 80% to 90% of their "matriculating" student population graduates--meaning the young folks that stay in school. Most of our African American student drop out of college, period. And the mainstream institutions could care less if we even stay...

So no amount of test banking, study skill sets, etc. will change the deficiencies that the bulk of the entering African American college student faces, especially at mainstream universities...

Yes, higher powers must be employed to tackle that issue alone. And that takes money...

*Rain Man applauds loudly*

Monet, you hit the bottom of the ocean on that one. Very well said, Doctor!! ;)

stardusttwin 09-29-2005 04:09 PM

Quote:

if it wasn't up to the fellow students to encourage each other to stay in school, then there would be no need for collegiate fraternities and sororities, especially NPHC ones.
We'll just have to agree to disagree - fellow students were not responsible for me I was to myself and to my mother who took out beaucoup loans for em to be able to go. Yes when I was messing up it was my friends who would step to me and say hey girl get it together but its totally not up to students to take on parenting thier peers.

Quote:

Students today are overly concerned (IMO) with GPA's and the focus has contributed to over inflated grades as oppossed to genuinely well rounded students who are involved with a couple of orgs and maintaing a B+/A- avg.
This was in response to those recent grads that I've spoken to who did extremely well in undergrad but never attempted to pursue membership because of the fear that joining an org would make their grades drop. Its a bunch of bull to me. If you are about maintaining your grades you will do it - to not be involved with anything beyond your immediate self (ie I'm only involved with career oriented club that will help me network) is a choice but don't use your gpa as the excuse. A 4.0 but no extracurricular activities at all does not impress me. I'd rather deal with the person who took time to be involved.

The last section you quoted of mine refers to those that always say "the greeks do nothing on their campus"...again I say if they were really doing absolutely nothing then they would die out (like bad or poorly run chapters do). But if you mean that the members didn't walk up to your dorm room, walk you to the library and make sure that you studied, give you wake up calls to get to class, personally request your attendance at events, hand you the application, fill it out for you and impress upon you a sense of community outside of your immediate personal gratification then yeah maybe you're right - they aren't doing a damn thing - let em all fall apart.

But I've found statements like these are usually made by the uninvolved and uninformed. Not all schools are the same and unless you are dealling with various universities & interact with different chapters/regions its foolish IN 2005 to continue to place blame on an entire system based on your interaction with ONE person or even chapter.

brownsugar952 09-29-2005 04:30 PM

Like I said, each campus is different. But I swear on the life of both of my parents that I never heard a person that joined a BGLO org actually able to maintain their grades while they were going through "intake" and the "pre-intake" activities until I read this thread (I'm very involved on campus so I meet a lot of greeks). I just went to a baby shower a couple of weeks ago and my cousins who are in BGLOs were sitting around laughing about how much their grades dropped when they were going through their membership process. One of my cousin's who is in XYZ org joined her 3rd year in college. She was on the dean's list every semester before she started the process and her grades (along with her weight) drastically dropped when she was going through the "process." Does this happen with every person that joined a BGLO? I'm sure it doesn't. But if all you see are examples like that, what should you think.

I personally just know a lot of people who would love to join BGLOs orgs but they are scared what would happen if they pledged. If you can join academic clubs that you can be involved with after graduation and also join groups such as Sister to Sister (an AA group on my campus for women that was both social and community service oriented), it makes some people not see the point of joining a greek org. I don't see why a comment like that shouldn't be validated.

southernelle25 09-29-2005 04:53 PM

I agree with stardusttwin. Consider this quote from the film, Troy:

Messenger Boy: The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him.
Achilles: That is why no one will remember your name.


We might take the Thessalonian to symbolize the challenge that is before each of us - our responsibilities to improve ourselves, our families, AND our communities. Collectively, they are immense, but part of growing up is learning to prioritize and balance... not to simply walk away.

Honeykiss1974 09-29-2005 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownsugar952

I personally just know a lot of people who would love to join BGLOs orgs but they are scared what would happen if they pledged. If you can join academic clubs that you can be involved with after graduation and also join groups such as Sister to Sister (an AA group on my campus for women that was both social and community service oriented), it makes some people not see the point of joining a greek org. I don't see why a comment like that shouldn't be validated.

I think these comments are valid and touch on those that IotaNet initially mentioned. Of course hindsight is 20/20 (and being almost 10 years removed from college :p ) but grades are important. They can determine what grad school you get into, what internship you get during the summer (which could turn into a job offer upon graduation), etc. To totally discount people that are concerned about their grades is illogical to me, because in reality you are in college to get a degree (and eventually a better life for yourself, family, etc.). I'd hardly call someone that is concerned about over-extending themselves to the point where their grades slip (ESPECIALLY is they are on an academic scholarship which funds your entire education) as a cop-out.

To put another spin on it....

If you are active in a professional/academic/major-specific org(s) where you are networking, making friends, gaining skills/contacts that will help you succeed, you maintain a good GPA, and you have made good friends with people in the dorm/class and such, then I can see why they would be cynical.
They have everything covered:

~Sister/Brotherhood=got it
(made close friends from living in the dorm and membership in org)
~Leadership skills=got it
(serves as an officier in professional org/active member)
~Networking=got it
(attends all conferences/workshops of prof. org. - gaining skills and internship opportunities, etc.)
~Academic support=got it
(maintains GPA, prof./academic org offers tutorial support if needed, etc.)

I'm not saying that BGLOs are bad or anything like that. I am saying that its not "hating, laziness, or lack of organizational skills" on a non-greek's part if that's their reason for not seeing the point in joining.

sigmadiva 09-29-2005 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974


~Sister/Brotherhood=got it
(made close friends from living in the dorm and membership in org)
~Leadership skills=got it
(serves as an officier in professional org/active member)
~Networking=got it
(attends all conferences/workshops of prof. org. - gaining skills and internship opportunities, etc.)
~Academic support=got it
(maintains GPA, prof./academic org offers tutorial support if needed, etc.)


I totally understand what you are saying, and I do see and respect your point.

The 'uniqueness' about joining a GLO is that you can (as I understand it) have all that you listed above *in one organization*. You have listed (implied by your listing) that you were part of four different groups.

I received sisterhood from my dorm, leadership skills and networking from the campus orgs I was involved in and academic support from my teachers and TAs. But, I also got all that from my UG and Grad chapters.

Honeykiss1974 09-29-2005 08:30 PM

What is posted above isn't necessarily my personal undergraduate experience. Actually, what I listed were the main traits that can be gained from one group or many (depends on the type of group LOL).

But the point was that I could totally see how a non-greek could feel that way - especially given the fact that many campuses offer SOOOOO many types of outlets of extra-curricular activities that will allow students to gain those skills sets listed above without (and I'm quoting IotaNet here) "going through some changes that might affect your GPA". I would agree with previous posters about time management, because it is an important skill. However, if you're already attending classes, studying, active in another group(s), spending time with friends & a SO, working (ie a job or work study), I think you're already learning that lesson and how to do it well.

Again, not saying that BGLOs are bad/evil but I am saying that there is validity in the thought process of students who feel that way - especially if a high GPA is what brought you to college in the first place (academic scholarship) and without it, you couldn't afford college otherwise.

Anyway, just trying to present another POV. Thanks for listening. :)

sigmadiva 09-29-2005 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974


Anyway, just trying to present another POV. Thanks for listening. :)

I know. And I appreciate that you are bringing it up. :)

Its just in theory when you join a GLO your grades should not fall. I said should not, but I am sure we all know of people who's grades suffered.

Looong ago when I was a pledge, during that time you had to do stuff - learn aspects about the sorority, bonding activites, attend meetings, and if you followed what was written, then your grades should not fall. The unfortunate problem with the pledge period is that sometimes big sisters / big brothers / Dean of Pledges would take a few of the activities to an unnecessary extreme, hence falling grades of the pledges.

Alot of chapters do maintain a GPA requirement and GLO members usually have higher GPAs on campus. And, most GLOs that I know of offer scholarships to their members, so you need to have a high GPA just to apply for money from your own org.

AKA_Monet 09-30-2005 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownsugar952
Like I said, each campus is different. But I swear on the life of both of my parents that I never heard a person that joined a BGLO org actually able to maintain their grades while they were going through "intake" and the "pre-intake" activities until I read this thread (I'm very involved on campus so I meet a lot of greeks). I just went to a baby shower a couple of weeks ago and my cousins who are in BGLOs were sitting around laughing about how much their grades dropped when they were going through their membership process. One of my cousin's who is in XYZ org joined her 3rd year in college. She was on the dean's list every semester before she started the process and her grades (along with her weight) drastically dropped when she was going through the "process." Does this happen with every person that joined a BGLO? I'm sure it doesn't. But if all you see are examples like that, what should you think.
What you are seeing is the "pool" of selection. From the folks that I have encountered, there are many of them that really do not know how to go to college. Forget skipping class and not liking school. It is more about they try to have fulltime menial jobs (i.e. working at McDonald's--which is okay if that is what they want to do..) while starting off school---right out of high school.

That is NOT encouraged for the academic demands placed on folks. However more universities are getting those types of students who are barely 18 years old with fulltime jobs. And forget the 18 year olds with children or spouses...

Even my elder students (older than 30) in the classes that I taught were not working fulltime while they were in school. Sure they loaned themselves into oblivion, but they said they needed that time to get the full collegiate experience.

Well, many African Americans must be doing something to make money while in school... Because they don't have family that will pay for the big game at homecoming and all the outfits that go along with it, etc... So it is a matter of priorities.

One can have the uber study life of the library while in college with few friends, then go to the local barista/pub and have a beer on Friday's (maybe). But that gets dull in the long run... How one balances work and play is what college is all about and they have time managment workshops thru the student activities office...

But, I have yet to see a number of Af Ams at PWI's pursue those opportunities...

Now at Spelman, one was required to have a 3.0 cumulative GPA and a 3.8 semester average before they joined an organization... So, only the best and the brightest were accepted thru the general paper screening... After the general paper screening, though was whether the chapter members voted on them or not.

That is a whole 'nother issue that we cannot get into. But, it has to mostly be about the disabling of what folks want as members by what is said at the International HQ... There are plenty of locked up topics regarding this subject alone...


Quote:

Originally posted by brownsugar952
I personally just know a lot of people who would love to join BGLOs orgs but they are scared what would happen if they pledged. If you can join academic clubs that you can be involved with after graduation and also join groups such as Sister to Sister (an AA group on my campus for women that was both social and community service oriented), it makes some people not see the point of joining a greek org. I don't see why a comment like that shouldn't be validated.
Well maybe I'm biased but there is nothing like being a part of my Sorority. No other organization is sufficient since I joined Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. It is just different from anything else I have ever been a part of. I have been a part of various organization prior to my joining my Sorority, then I have been a part of various other organizations after joining my Sorority... All I can say is there is a difference of how things operate. The social hierarchy is different, the "love" is different. I just don't get the same kind of "love" that I do when it comes from my sorors when I am apart of something else outside of my sorors. I can say it 's hard sometimes being in my Sorority, but I wouldn't trade my experience for anything else in the world...

Hey, if you can said the "sorority life" is not for you, then hey, it's cool, whatever... That is not where your priorities lie at this time in your life. Nothing's wrong with that... But be fine with that in your life.

I think what folks get angry about is when they have tried to become a member of a BGLO and got denied membership they are angry because they think that membership outta be owed to them whenever...

We shall see what will happen in the future because I have a feeling membership intake will change again for everybody after the 100 year anniversaries are over for most organizations...

sigmadiva 10-01-2005 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet


We shall see what will happen in the future because I have a feeling membership intake will change again for everybody after the 100 year anniversaries are over for most organizations...

How? I'm curious what you mean.

sigmadiva 10-01-2005 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA_Monet


I think what folks get angry about is when they have tried to become a member of a BGLO and got denied membership they are angry because they think that membership outta be owed to them whenever...


I used to believe that too, but after talking to some women on why they did not join in college they said that they did not like some of the hazing that went on.

One of my cousin's attended a HBCU (early 80's) and she told me about some of the hazing that went on at her school with the NPHC greeks. Quite frankly, I can see why some people would not want to join if they are at a particualr school because that is all that they see with respect to that org. Some of the hazing was done behind closed doors, but some was very public and very humiliating. And PWI's are not immune either.

jubilance1922 10-02-2005 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownsugar952
Like I said, each campus is different. But I swear on the life of both of my parents that I never heard a person that joined a BGLO org actually able to maintain their grades while they were going through "intake" and the "pre-intake" activities until I read this thread (I'm very involved on campus so I meet a lot of greeks). I just went to a baby shower a couple of weeks ago and my cousins who are in BGLOs were sitting around laughing about how much their grades dropped when they were going through their membership process. One of my cousin's who is in XYZ org joined her 3rd year in college. She was on the dean's list every semester before she started the process and her grades (along with her weight) drastically dropped when she was going through the "process." Does this happen with every person that joined a BGLO? I'm sure it doesn't. But if all you see are examples like that, what should you think.

I personally just know a lot of people who would love to join BGLOs orgs but they are scared what would happen if they pledged. If you can join academic clubs that you can be involved with after graduation and also join groups such as Sister to Sister (an AA group on my campus for women that was both social and community service oriented), it makes some people not see the point of joining a greek org. I don't see why a comment like that shouldn't be validated.


Grade changes occur all the time, it takes a disciplined person to be able to join an organization and still maintain their academics. For example, the semester that I became of member of Sigma, I was working 2 jobs for a total of 30 hrs/week, taking 16 credits in chemistry, doing research in a lab for graduate school, and served as a regional officer for another organization. My grades were actually better that semester, because I knew that I had to be focused. I had no time to goof off. If joining an NPHC org is important to you, you will make the time to do it, and also make the time to make sure your academic career is excellent. At the same time, my line sisters were just as busy and both of them maintained 3.5 and 3.8 GPAs as well.

As for joining other orgs, on my campus, I was a member of everything, from BSU to NSBE to SISTAH (our women's group) to professional orgs. But I KNEW that there were somethings that only SIGMA could give me. And I made the sacrifices that I had to make. IMO, people who have all these excuses ("I don't want my grades to fall", "I don't have time", "I'm afraid") simply don't really want to join. If they REALLY wanted it, they would do what they had to do.

Amaterasu 10-04-2005 02:16 AM

I'm non-Greek...I guess I'll share...

I suppose my biggest apprehension is sort of being unknowing. I mean, I guess I feel like BGLOs (or elite black groups in general) aren't very...welcoming to students who don't have legacy or family history. It's like not only does it matter who you are, but also who your parents and your parents' parents are. For someone like me -- I'm definitely working-class; I am THE FIRST person in my family to attend college traditionally (mother received her nursing certificate from a tech school before I entered; after I went in, she started pursuing her bachelor's); my family hasn't done anything particularly significant in the community, nor do they have a lot of money. Most of their associates also aren't graduates of college, much less sorority/fraternity members. So I never had the privilege of doing Jack & Jill, debutante cotillions, or societies like those in school.

Now I am at an HBCU where it seems most of the students are upper-middleclass (as the school is notorious for skimpy financial aid). Most of my friends are "legacies" of my school, have mothers and fathers who are members of sororities/fraternities, were in Jack & Jill, their parents are Links or Boules, and they have the money...I had never even HEARD of Jack & Jill before I came to this college. And I had heard of sororities/fraternities but really didn't know what they are.

And now I am just more confused. I have done my research, and decided I click, but I feel like I just don't have the same opportunities as these women who come from long lines of ABC or XYZ org and whose mothers have sorority sisters to write them recommendations and the like. I know ONE graduate member of the organization that I am interested in and have no idea if she is financial, and it's not because I lack community service or anything like that -- I have just only happened to have come across one, and I developed a relationship with her as a mentor and counselor. At the time her Greek affiliation didn't really strike me as anything because I barely knew what a Greek was.

And I know (now anyway) that these groups require a recommendation from an active, financial soror. I mean, how are you supposed to meet these members if you grew up in an environment such as I did? I know next to nothing about the actual intake process -- I didn't know about the not wearing of the colors thing or the "go to all of their events!" thing. I mean, some of it seemed common sense, and I participated in things because I WANTED to and not just because I wanted to join XYZ, but...

So I guess I what I want to say is...too often the assumption is that students know the correct protocol to follow for applying to and getting accepted to the org of choice. They think you know stuff. But even the very basic things, like not wearing the colors to RUSH or not saying "I've wanted to be an XYZ since high school" may seem to be common sense, but may not be so common to those who haven't been exposed. I know that the secrecy of the org is part of what makes it so special, but I wish there were more information disseminated about what it takes to become an XYZ, and what they actually do for the community.

And the graduate chapters in my area don't seem to be very involved with the undergraduates, which I would like to see. It seems like there's a huge gap between grad chapters and undergrad chapters -- their missions, their philosophies, their ideas. Everyone tells me, "You should ask your questions to grads because they will be nicer." Well, why is that?

southernelle25 10-04-2005 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brownsugar952
Maybe my campus was a rare situation, but if a person comes to campus without any prior knowledge of XYZ and they still don't see anything about the org when they are there, why would they research it? Why should someone express interest if the members on campus aren't doing anything to gain interest?
If the potential interest is active in his/her community and/or even just earns and maintains a certain reputation, their work and character won't go unnoticed. Members of these organizations are everywhere, and (so far as I have seen with my own eyes) individuals who stand out as having the makings for a quality member may be approached without ever having expressed interest.


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