This reminds me of a weird rush incident. At the time, there were 16 sororities and we seemed to be a lot of great PNMs' "safety" sorority - we always had a 3 crowded preference parties, but ended up losing so many of our favorites to the "top 3".

So it was our last pref party, I was tired and cranky, and I knew that the next day, most of my favorite girls would be going elsewhere.

I sat down next to a lovely girl, poised, beautiful voice, perfect posture, perfect hair, perfect makeup, and holding a yellow and red carnation and a little booklet with a kite on the cover, clearly indicating where she had visited before us (I won't mention what two other sororities were involved ;) Note to youngsters: Back in the day, you were allowed to give PNMs small gifts - nothing valuable - tokens like flowers, hand-made booklets, etc.)

Anyway, she said "I have no idea how I'm going to make this choice. It's really going to be tough!"

OK. That was it. I'd had it.

I looked her right in the eye and, dripping sarcasm, I said "Oh, you know exactly where you want to go. Don't torture yourself, just go with your gut write down your favorite and leave it at that. You'll end up where you were meant to go."

The next day, much to my horror, there she was, in our suite. She came right over to me, hugged me and said "Thank you so much! I knew I wanted to go ASA, but everyone kept telling me different things. So I followed your advice, and you're right! It was easy!"

Thank God sarcasm goes right over some people's heads. And yes, of course she ended up as chapter President at some point, blah, blah, blah.

Damn, I love you P!

I think that my favorite thing about ASAs is that I have yet to meet one that doesn't like to just speak her mind.:)

If that's your criteria, you would have fit RIGHT in at our chapter, AlphaFrog!

Carnation - I was interested and appalled by your comment that to be involved in certain student organizations at Auburn you had to be from one of the top sororities. If these are student organizations then they should be open to all students, no matter which sorority you are in or if you are not in one at all. This is the fault of the Auburn administration who obviously just doesn't care about its students. At my university if the sororities tried to pull something like that the administration would kick greek ass like you wouldn't believe. Could be that's what I pay $45k a year for.

I'm assuming Auburn has a similar number of student orgs to UGA and they have a similar structure with a student activities office presiding over student groups. I believe we had several thousand student orgs when I was there (any organized group of 10 students with a sponsor was a student organization as long as necessary paperwork was filled out). As a serving officer of three different organizations during my time at UGA, I know that the student activities office didn't check up on our membership. One of these groups was by audition only and the other two were open to everyone, but they would have had no way of knowing if I decided the latter two were for only people from certain groups (Greeks, drama majors, rich kids, etc.). If our organization's constitution on file with student activities said we would let anyone in regardless of race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc., they assumed that we did it... so I can see how a group could get away with SAYING anyone can join/apply and then actually going about it differently. Doesn't make it right... but I can see how they could get away with it.

This is not the fault of the administration, because it's not their job. It's the job of the student activities office, and with that many student orgs there's no way they can go around policing everyone. [And, of course, I thought I'd mention that higher education is a business and the administration is not in the business of caring about their students, but rather in the business of making money.]

I would assume that any school for which you pay $45K a year has a smaller student body and less student organizations. It would be much easier to keep tabs on every organization in this situation. I'm sure that, yes, a smaller campus/student body is part of your tuition cost.

What I'm talking about are organizations that you try out for like Angel Flight (now Silver Wings), War Eagle Girls (the main ambassador group), sports auxiliaries, and leadership honoraries. You had to go through numerous selection procedures like interviews and teas and some groups would have first and second cuts. Usually the groups were top-heavy with women from the older sororities because the old members voted on the new members and they tended to vote for sisters or women in "like" sororities. Hundreds of women would try for 10 or 20 open slots.

This wasn't just at Auburn--this was at all universities I attended and others I've taught at.

Same thing holds true at Bama for groups like Jasons, Capstone Men and Women, ODK, and Blue Key.

Yep. And it's not that there's a screening that says you have to be Greek to do it, or even the "who you know" aspect with old GLOs voting for new members which could certainly be a part: it's just that the same type of person with the overall qualification to be selected for these elite groups are also the same qualifications that get PNM in top GLOs.

Now, of course there are always independent represented among the super selective university wide groups, but had these independents rushed, they'd probably have been eagerly pick up by GLOs.

It's not a formal exclusionary practice of Only Top Greeks allowed. It's just often works out that way because the Greeks are leaders and joiners.

Carnation - Just so I understand what is going on at Auburn. Hundreds of women try for 10 or 20 open slots in the War Eagle Girls. There is a selection process run by old members who are also in the top sororities. The old members then vote for their sisters or members of "like" sororities. You think this is the way it should be.

Pardon me for being an idealistic college kid.

No, I'll pardon you for being a troll or maybe I won't. In no way have I said that it should be that way. But if you happened to read what the posters from other SEC schools said in addition to what I did, you may have noticed that we said that that's how it's done. Not one of us approved.

Carnation - If that's the way it's done at the college where you work and you don't approve why don't you work to make the selection process for these groups more inclusive. You could end up being a real hero to the rest of the students.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not necessarily part of her job.

It's not part of her job, and I don't even think she ever worked at Auburn*. I think she was just an undergraduate student there.

BadCat, you might just need to grow up a little and not look to other people to fight the battles you think need to be fought. If this is near and dear to your heart, get after it.

Perhaps if you took us through how selections for elite organizations are done at your 45,000 dollar a year school (which incidentally, I think works against your point that the administration cares more about its students), then anyone outraged at how things are done on other campuses will know what to do.

(And honestly, unless you know what the application pool is, doesn't it even makes sense for you to draw these conclusions?)

ETA: Bases on her post below, I can see that I'm wrong about this point.

That's not how it's done where I teach now. And at any university, I wouldn't have any input whatsoever unless I were advisor to the group. I taught at Auburn in the eighties and advised 2 clubs but other professors certainly didn't get involved in my honoraries.

Great points, AlphaGamUGA Alum!

Or, you can just accept the fact that this is the way the world works, and get over it. Or, you can have a nervous brakedown by the time you're 30 worrying about things you can't control.

Are you going to tell a future potential employer that he should stop hiring his partner's sons and hire you because that's what's fair and inclusive?