Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916096)

I'm on board with no more insults, as I think MysticCat and I are getting somewhere. But I really can't understand your above question Knight Rider.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1916095)

If everything was handled properly, why are you all here complaining?

Originally Posted by Rambler1869 (Post 1916101)

We didnt start this discussion. In terms of why we are here now... Personally, I simply wanted to explain our side as there were a number of misconceptions surrounding what has been happening.
Our complaint, as I said earlier, is that this group of men have been denied the right to even apply as an RSO; thus not allowed to use the same facilities granted to organizations of the exact same type.
IFC recognition would be the ideal; but we also acknowledge their right to grant or deny membership. However, we do not believe that the school has any grounds to deny any organization to register and use facilities, that is peaceful and does not disrupt the education of another student.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916105)

Knight Shadow- so you think it is okay for FGCU, as a public institution, to deny groups from being officially recognized, but allow the fraternities already on campus to operate and enjoy all the freedoms that come with official recognition? I just want to make sure I have that straight. It's a slippery slope my fraternal friend, because where does it end? And why exactly do you think it's okay for FGCU, a public institution, to recognize certain fraternities but deny recognition to others?? I'l' take the questions one step further so we avoid the answer" "because its the rule." Knight Shadow, please analyze the rule. What is constitutional about FGCU, a publicly funded university, granting official recognition to certain groups and denying other groups that same recognition.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1916104)

IIRC, if you want to be JUST a RSO, your single-sex status might be challenged.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916109)

This is the argument right here Knight Rider, and I'm being serious.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916109)

This is the precise rule we think is unconstitutional. FGCU is basically inventing a rule that in order to be a registered student organization that we have to "have membership in a governing council" aka "we have to be recognized by the IFC." Such a rule puts our civil liberties in the hands of our fellow students, which is unconstitutional. Neither you nor I have the right to tel any other student he can't be recognized by the university unless we, as a "governing council" recognizes him first. Post Brown v. Board of Education, the gov't (FGCU) can't deny us right simply because our fellow citizens (IFC, Greeks, students) don't want us around. We all have rights regardless of what others want!! This is America, we are all equal!!!! That is our entire point.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916109)

However, in order to be recognized as a GLO, it sounds like you need to have membership in a governing council.

There we go!! This is the argument right here Knight Rider, and I'm being serious. This is the precise rule we think is unconstitutional. FGCU is basically inventing a rule that in order to be a registered student organization that we have to "have membership in a governing council" aka "we have to be recognized by the IFC." Such a rule puts our civil liberties in the hands of our fellow students, which is unconstitutional. Neither you nor I have the right to tel any other student he can't be recognized by the university unless we, as a "governing council" recognizes him first. Post Brown v. Board of Education, the gov't (FGCU) can't deny us right simply because our fellow citizens (IFC, Greeks, students) don't want us around. We all have rights regardless of what others want!! This is America, we are all equal!!!! That is our entire point.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916116)

Knight Shadow, just in case it isn't clear, Title 9 is federal legislation. It is the law. Federal law preempts state law vis a vis something called the supremacy clause. Title 9 expressly gives fraternities and sororities the right to operate as gender-specific organizations. As such, FGCU can't invent a rule challenging our single-gender status, because it's FEDERAL LAW. Make sense?

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916116)

Knight Shadow, just in case it isn't clear, Title 9 is federal legislation. It is the law. Federal law preempts state law vis a vis something called the supremacy clause. Title 9 expressly gives fraternities and sororities the right to operate as gender-specific organizations. As such, FGCU can't invent a rule challenging our single-gender status, because it's FEDERAL LAW. Make sense?

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1916113)

FGCU did not invent this rule. Many schools require council membership for liability purposes.

So it sounds like your issue is not with FGCU, but with IFC, an entity that does not want you at this time.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow (Post 1916121)

What rule has FGCU created that challenges your single-sex status?

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916122)

See what we are dealing with MysticCat? random users jump on and insult us, like "Dr" Phil. They ignore legally valid arguments, and simply take shots, which is easy to do- sit back, say nothing and take shots at people. And then you complain when we respond? Please, don't stick up for Dr. Phil.

Knight Shadow, our issue is with FGCU. IFC can deny us the right to be in IFC. IFC is a bunch of students and can do whatever it wants. FGCU, however, can't deny us the right to be a student organization simply because IFC doesn't want us around. IFC and FGCU aren't one in the same. Make sense?

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor (Post 1916124)

Dr Phil, I don't think understanding of Title 9 is common knowledge, you have to read it and study it.

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1916112)

Hey, KSigAdvil, his username is knight_shadow.

Originally Posted by Rambler1869 (Post 1916123)

Not necessarily; the school does need all groups to be registered, provide a copy of bylaws, and list of all members for liability purposes; but that's just about it. The governing body is a seperate matter.

The fight is with FGCU, not the IFC. A group of students, does not have the right to ban a lawful group of students to form an organization. They can prevent that group from being members of their own organization (IFC can vote no to IFC recognition; but they cannot vote to have them not form at all). However, the school itself, by equal protection laws is still bound to let every organization apply to become a registered student organization.