^^^^Agreed. Our southern sisters are very warm and open to all.

I know, I agree, I just felt badly about singling out the guys which is why I emphasized the 'some'. :) But yeah, in truth it's just the guys from what I've seen in this thread and elsewhere...

Of course, that is problematic for more that just those from northern chapters. While I completely see how some get on the defensive immediately when someone from a southern chapter states something so bluntly, I can't understand why the first reaction is to attack whoever said whatever was offensive to begin with.
This is getting complicated, but I'll leave it at that I actually understand both sides, but am more offended by the northern arguments.

And it seems to be a pretty small section of the men, who for the most part admit more to having problems with chapters near them geographically that don't measure up for whatever reasons, even more than it's a south vs. other regions thing.

It's seems to be a self-perceived super-elite chapter thing maybe even more than a regional issue.

I definitely agree with this too. I didn't mean to condone the defensiveness, but I do understand it as a rather natural human reaction. I think it's one of those issues that is a shame from both sides, in many ways. The 'disowning' saddens me more than the defensiveness, which is why I likely keyed into it more.

For what it's worth, my experience is that of a midwesterner who lived in the south for a few years and feels very connected with southern friends.

This is very close to the point in my opinion. What grinds our gears is that some Joe Smo at North State University can just walk into one of our chapters up there and get a bid (not the case for every Northern chapter, but you get where I'm going). Meanwhile, down here, the exact opposite is true. Even if you're lucky enough to get a bid you then have to work your ass off (if you have a real pledgeship). When they walk around wearing hoodies w/ our letters on them it negates everything that we've worked for to our chapter synonymous with high standards. Again, this doesn't apply to every chapter of every fraternity at every northern university, but you want us to look at any guy with our letters and consider him an equal in our brotherhood? Are you serious?

Yep.

I feel they should be considered equal, but if they don't hold themselves to the same standard of gentlemen/did not take our fraternity serious then I would be highly furious. Guess its just a southern thing:D

I feel the same way. While they really are my brothers, I wish most of them weren't.

Bingo.

Exalt. If they take the fraternity seriously then that's all we can reasonably ask of them. I feel that at least 91% of southern fraternities take themselves very seriously.

From this and your other posts, I've got to say that I think you're SERIOUSLY misinformed.

Yep.

There's a reason that at the national gatherings, the Southerners hang out with Southerners and it's not only becaue of being Southern.

After reading the majority of the posts on this thread....there's no way he's misinformed.

Hello, EW. Did you affiliate with the UA chapter this year?

And I think you beautifully illustrated my point of why so many northerners have such a distaste for what I personally find to be incredibly excessive elitisim.

I openly admit I don't know as much about fraternities and their general beliefs, but is not this attitude about your brothers just as contrary to your ideals as the things you accuse your 'brothers' of doing in the first place? (And what exactly is a 'real pledgeship'? My mind initially leaps straight to hazing, but I hate to think the worst without at least clarifying.)

I just cannot think that you guys would expect people to not be openly hostile and defensive when these kinds of sweeping generalizations are made about your northern chapters.

From my outsiders perspective, the answer to your last question is yes, I did think that fraternity men would look at someone who has been initiated and accepted by their national organization as equal, as a brother. I'll acknowledge my obvious idealism in this case. :)

Well, if being a part of the same organization isn't what makes you brothers - if having the same ideals, same creed, having gone through the same ritual, being a part of a chain of men going back over a hundred years isn't what makes you brothers, what does that say about your GLO? You would say a man who has gone through all of that is not your brother because of his choice of clothing? A man who wears a hoodie instantly is somehow inferior? Pardon me for thinking that your standards are rather superficial if that is the case.
I also want to know about this sweeping generalization that all the northern chapters have no standards and will pledge anyone - what is this based on? Running into a few brothers from northern chapters you don't feel would make it on your campus? Are you so sure their standards aren't different, as opposed to inferior? (I know - it's a rhetorical question)
I sincerely don't understand why you would want to remain a part of an inter/national GLO if you feel this strongly. Far better to be a local, and not have to deal with those non-southerners.