gracias

Re: Re: Interesting topic
 

I'm late on this, but I agree besides if you think its difficult w/ class, activities, and maybe working part time, think of how challenging it will be to work full-time, go to Grad/Prof. school full time, get married, start a family, yada, yada, yada..... My advice to any undergrad. sisterfriends don't let excuses get in the way of your opportunity to pursue membership at the undergrad level! With programs posted constantly, a RUSH(!!!!) and members in class with you every day... Hummm don’t delay to make power moves!

I just now realized that I never answered the original question. NO, I don't think their is a Greek Decline, I just think the mentality about Greeks and what people SHOULD be doing for them are changing. If anything, I think I can say the the public publications of The Divine Nine by Lawrence Ross and In Search of Sisterhood by Paula Giddings have actually increased (maybe in a negative way, depending on who you ask) interest in BGLOs. I still think that there are different reasons for why people don't do them and what have you, but there is not a decline perse.

Now I have some questions for everyone (esp. the OLDER Greeks).

Growing up with a few college educated family members and even more so in high school, I used to hear alot about the pledge clubs. I don't want to say everything for fear of misquoting somebody but I do remember hearing about the historical relavance of the clubs to the organizations. Do you think that by bringing the clubs back, that may help with the quality of interest that are pursuing the organization?

And someone said something about the African Americans not valuing the historical revalence of the BGLOs. I know what I may know (and I probably could still learn), but what exactly is it about the organizations (historically speaking) that you want people to know? Of course, most people should know the founding date, founders, list of first and other tidbits; but what historical information that you feel is important that people in general (not just the interest) are not getting?


If these are inappropriate questions, feel free to delete.

Civil Rights...
 

Without out several of our Founders and numerous members losing their lives for the gains we have made for Civil Rights we would not be here today having any discussion...

I could go on and on... But I will leave it at that for now...

I think that it is important to know the circumstances surrounding the founding of our orgs. Not just where, who and when but about the climate of the time and why the formation of the org was necessary in a societal sense.

Everyone, Greeks and non-Greeks, need to understand that many of the relevant Black men and women of the last century were Greek. Because of the structure and focus or our orgs, many recieved their early leadership training within the group.

It's 2005...
 

Does everyone still see a decline...ttt

:rolleyes:

Not greek but I definately see a rapid decline in bglo's in my area.
Eventho I do attend a university that is only about 15% African American (prolly due to da fak dat a very famous HBCU is 5 miles down da road). Nevertheless, it has been rumored since I was in highschool that the administration of the university at which I attend was working on eliminating bglo's altogether. And now that I am entering my third year and have been placed in positions such as Student Gov't V.P., I am able to see firsthand that this is true.

But I can't speak for errbody...'specially konsiderin da fak dat I ain' Greek.

The reason on my campus
 

Not greek, but know almost every member on campus and we talk about this alot. First of all the whole time issue is bull, I've known folks with kids, pregnant, or workins jobs (yes, more than one) that did it. So if u want it, you'll find a way. Some are off the yard. But more than anything its this individuality kick that people swear they're on. They say greeks are brainwashed and they quote a lot of misinformation. I'm not greek but I'm considering it, and I find that a lot of folks try to join for the wrong reasons (wearing the colors, stepping). The panhellenic council on campus held and informational (which was standing room only- just packed), and half those folks probably don't have the GPA (2.5) or the service requirement. We live in an instant society...ppl don't have to work for jack. Click a button you can buy, sell, trade, or learn anything. There's no serious prestige associated with GLO's anymore, and ppl (non-greeks) basically don't know their history, and why there actually are BGLO's, so its an ignorance thing too. There was a time when everybody knew about discretion and how to go about seeking the information, but I realized that there is such a gap in the org's themselves from generation to generation, some members complain but then don't take the time to aid or heal those rifts. The best thing i've ever seen is the old heads from one particular frat on my campus coming back to help the neo's and keep everyone on the same page, those boys are tough. It's a lifetime committment and so many members fall away and then complain...it starts with you guys..I think being greek at one point exemplified the very essence of what the black community should be sisters and brothers working together with the same interests to help and shape the community. Its a bunch of terrible bs but that's what most UG's are on right now BS. Everything comes so easy to a lot of these kids, and they can't stand to have to work for anything... they just want the connects and they'll happily pay their money, but time and committment, what's that? BS. JMHO. No offense meant.

I agree with you Candela. A lot of my friends who pledged last yr were pre-med and still had time to pledge and keep their grades halfway decent. If you want something badly enough you will and can make the time for it regardless of what your major is. Life is about mananging your time which you will have to do with work, personal life, and etc.. It won't get any easier as you get older. I know for my school they raised the gpa up to 2.78 so you have to learn how to balance everything. I'm happy our school did this because if your grades aren't that great that means you can't handle the workload of just school work by itself let alone anything else. Due to other reasons I came to the conclusion that I was not ready to become greek due to maturity at the time in undergrad. But there were many who wanted to be greek that didn't meet the basic requirement like having community service, not knowing the sororitie's activites htey held on and off campus, and basic information like founding dates. I really believe many people just think since they want to become greek it will happen without doing any work to get it. And like someone mentioned before we are in a time where people think everything should be handed to them just because they want it. Another reason for the decline could be due to the research that is required. I don't understand how you think you are going to join XYZ and not know anything about them. Stereotyping is another problem. Just because you meet a bad person in XYZ doesn't mean the whole group is like that. Bad people are going to be bad people before and after they join XYZ. I've been lucky to encounter the most giving and generous people ever and they happen to be greek. I personally think it shows a lot about a person character if they are dedicated to something they feel very passionate about. But overall I think there is a decline due to people's ignorance and misconceptions.

Another perspective ...
 

To the Group -

I have another perspective on this discussion that may spur some additional thought.

A few years ago, I was chatting with Darryl Matthews (Executive Director of the National Association of Black Accountants and current General President of Alpha.) He recounted a conversation he had at a NABA convention with some undergraduate students.

Specifically, he asked a group of them whether they were members of BGLO's and the vast majority were not. When asked, the general consensus was, "Why Join a Fraternity/Sorority? We get what we need from NABA."

When you think about that, it goes pretty deep.

Back in the early days of Greekdom, Blacks had very few places/organizations we could feel welcome and validated. I was recently reading the Kappa ahistory book and it spoke at length about how Kappa was founded largely to provide Black college men at Indiana with a sense of "community" and support.

By and large, we didn't have access to mainstream organizations or middle class affluence. Heck, we couldn't even stay at most hotels. BGLO's gave us a place to be comfortable and receive a measure of this validation.

Nowadays, the world has changed. We (ostensibly) have full access to places, travel, resources, and the like. In other words, we don't need to go to the changes of seeking BGLO membership just for social/personal validation. Indeed, those in the middle class can afford to go to Hawaii, the Bahamas, or Europe if/when we choose to do so. We make enough money to go and BUY some validation if we please.

Additionally, there are a number of campus-based organizations (not necessarily Fraternity/Sorority) from which young Blacks can choose. There's NABA, NSBE, BDPA, NBMBAA and a whole host of others. the added bonus is that these groups don't necessitate the rigors (foolishness?) of hazing that some of our BGLO's won't let go of.

On the other hand however, these groups offer valuable training, development, and networking opportunities that will enhance the lives of those students.

Consider this concept:
If you are a Black undergraduate student, carrying a 3.75 in Engineering, would you spend yoour time joining NSBE (National Society of Black Engineers) where you know there will be academic support, networking, and no hassles for entry or XYZ Fraternity where you will "go through some changes that might affect your GPA?"


I have seen this example up close and personal. My SO is a neophyte AKA (Grad chapter in 2003.) Her daughter just graduated from a VERY prestigious (sp?) University with a 4.0 in Mechanical Engineering. When her mother went over, the subject of AKA came up for her.

We ALL agreed that nothing (including messing with AKA on the undergraduate level) should come between her and keeping her 4.0 and scholarship. I told her point-blank: "AKA has been around almost 100 years -- it will be still be around AFTER you graduate. You just worry about keeping that GPA intact."


I'm not debating the merits of those organizations vs. Greekdom, I'm merely laying out the value proposition though the lens of a prospective member.

We, as a system, need to get away from thinking that we are "doing a favor" to the people who consider membership and understand that we better be about the business of delivering REAL value and useful experiences to them.

Just my .63

Re: Another perspective ...
 

IotaNet, you bring some insight to a question that (from my personal observation) Greeks have danced around but never really fully addressed:

Are the NPHC orgs still relevant in the 21st century? At the very least, your insight makes it a little bit harder for Greeks to definitively answer yes. That question requires true introspection and soul searching.



AMEN! I couldn't have said it better myself. Tell you what, I'll give you an additional .37 and make it $1, even though what you said was worth a lot more.

Good stuff, IotaNet!! ;) Keep on postin'!

Don't get it twisted ...
 

Slow down Sir -

The relevance of BGLO's is not in question here. The focus and understanding of our market is the key.

BGLO's have always provided a valuable service to our respective communities and have provided a valuable training ground (As well as networking opportunities) to its members. What we have to do is to make sure we understand the "buying criteria" of our market, i.e. prospective members.

Here's an example. In the mid-1990's, IBM Corporation (where I was a Sales Executive) experienced a serious upheaval. Market share was down, we were losing clients, and competition was eating into our market share.

Was the company irrelevant? Heck no! We were still making billions of dollars in revenue per year AND IBM computers were powering well over 2/3 of America's computer infrastructure. The key was that we had to re-examine how we were working with our customers. We had to be more focused on their buying criteria as well as the value we were delivering.

No different for BGLO's. We need to make sure that what we're doing fits the marketplace of today. That doesn't make us irrelevant, nor does it mean there's something "wrong" with the system.

The BGLO system is still a powerful force that is making a difference every day. We are far from "irrelevant."

Re: Another perspective ...
 

This is a good point. As an undergraduate, I was a member of NSBE and several organizations that supported my academic endeavors and professional development. However, I didn't say "I want to join Sigma Gamma Rho for professional development." I joined Sigma for sisterhood and the opportunity to impact my community, which are things that I felt those other orgs could not give me. I think its important to stress how we are different from these professional orgs, especially because some of them are incorporating "BGLO culture" into their orgs (stepshows, handsigns, chants, etc.)

What we market...
 

IotaNet,

I agree with most of the statements you said. The NPHC may need some re-tooling. I think part of the issue also is that "sense of community" and "belonging" that enriched the African American long ago barely resembles what we see today...

You said yourself, your significant other has a daughter that graduated college with a 4.0 in engineering. That your SO is a neophyte. Long ago, your SO would not even be considered to become a member of any NPHC organization because she has a daughter... So in some ways, our whole concept of "community" has changed to something that was never a consideration at the founding.

Obstensively so, you would expect young people in college to not observe the significance of joining organization at the collegiate levels because those values are no longer valid or are old-fashioned or not appreciated anymore--or for whatever reason... To capture one's imagination nowadays is to have something tangible...

I think another perspective to the observation made by Darryl Matthews is, why would one want to pursue a college education when there might not be about the "business of delivering REAL value and useful experiences to them..."

Many universities now are transitioning away from giving its students "job skills" to one now becoming "scholars"... That may just be the "global economy" at work. It is cheaper to "outsource" the job, rather than pay the employee rates here... So really becoming an "engineer" or my profession, "scientist" does not already include job placement... Mainly, I chose my major for the love of it--just like I chose my sorority...

I said all this to say, it does not matter how many opportunities the NPHC organizations actually provide (e.g. for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. we have both a ChryslerDiamler and a Pillsbury interships available for our undergraduate members as well as members of NPHC fraternities to apply, then we have the Educational Advancement Foundation that provides funds to those pursuing college degrees), relevancy will never be seen by those who choose to not see it...

Oh? Why not?