What you said, Titchou. It's very difficult here at Univeristy of Arizona - the actives have to return the first few days of August (IMO the worst month of the year here, we're sick of the heat, and the summer thunderstorms, it's when everyone heads to San Diego if possible). That really cuts into their summer internships, work, etc. And many alumnae are out of town for the summer.

I also think recs benefit the unknown out of state PNM the most. It's more than a "check mark" for them.

I always wonder this too. It would be really sad to join a house that was strong in a region and a great fit for you. You get to have a great college experience then graduate and go home to be the only ABC within a zillion miles. One of my own real sisters is going to be in about the same situation.

I think it would be a great opportunity (if she did, in fact, go back home as many don't) to get her group known in that community and maybe add to their growth. Look at the upside!

Things can change, too. When I moved here, we had no collegiate chapters in the state, and our 1 alumnae chapter had about 6 regular members - all but one above the age of 70. 15 years later we have 3 collegiate chapters in state (2 that are very large) and one huge one just across the border with a lot of local girls. We're now one of the bigger groups here.

So true, irishpipes. 15 years ago we only had 2 chapters in state. Now we have 5 (2 very large and at the 2 big state schools). 20 years ao we only about 200 alums in town. Now we have 725!

For the most part, those chapters are smaller. For the most part, those rushes (as in number of girls rushing) are smaller. Quite often, those chapters are at schools where rush is deferred to second semester freshman or even first semester sophomore year.

It's a lot easier for chapters with 60 girls to get to know the total 400 girls rushing than it is for chapters with 400 girls to get to know the total 2000 girls rushing. I'm sure that when girls from SEC chapters become traveling consultants and see how a smaller rush works, they say "God, I wish we could have had this much one on one time with rushees." But unless you want to do as Titchou said and drag rush out for weeks upon weeks - and remember that 3 weeks of SEC or Texas rush is =/= 3 weeks of rush at a small private school - I can't think what would be a better way to screen people.

Is there some element of the alums wanting to have a say in who is chosen for membership? Yes, I'm sure. But a thread of that probably runs through EVERY chapter, no matter the size/campus/organization - and no matter whether recs are commonly used or not, whether they have to be obtained before rush to avoid cuts or afterwards when the chapter knows who they want and obtains the recs for the rushees themselves.

Not exactly the same thing, Titchou. I know you guys had some super gungho alums in Birmingham to make that work. :)

(Plus they probably had more than a little help from Florida, Texas, and Mississippi?)

WEll, we did but for a while there ( a couple of years) we had no chapters in the state. So all the new alums had to move in from somewhere else...or have gone to school OOS. Amazing what a couple of chapters can do for you!

Yes, and a small group of alumnae can make a huge difference. When AOII colonized at Oklahoma, we had almost zero local alumnae (not exaggerating). There really weren't enough to fully staff an advisory board at a chapter so large. But a small group of extremely dedicated women pulled it off until the alumnae ranks grew, which didn't take long. I credit the chapter at OU with the successful colonizations at Arkansas and Oklahoma State, so a few "stranded" alumnae can make a big difference to a geographical area.

It's not the recs per se I'm opposed to, it's the MANDATORY part. A girl should be able to get through without them and certainly without 2 or 3 all saying the same thing.

I think recs should be reserved for alumnae who personally know the girls involved. I see this resulting in a "bonus" instead of the lack thereof being a punishment.

When my kids were in high school, I knew most of the other kids. But 10 years later, I don't know them. However, I do know their parents and their grandparents. I know people who know them.
Relying on trusted friends and contacts, I think I can write a pretty accurate rec even without personally knowing the girl.
And...there's always a perfect angel in high school who morphs into a college devil. A rec is just a recommendation, not an accurate prediction of what will happen.
As I ask alumnae when I'm searching for someone to recommend a PNM from their community, "How would you feel if you saw this girl at your local mall wearing our letters?"
I do agree that one rec should be enough.

I think we get that you don't like this process. What are you doing about it? Are you in talks with your national Council or VP Recruitment/Membership, lobbying to have it changed within your group? Talking with your local campus reps about it? Are you being a vehicle for change? Or are you going to just keep telling us - who have no control over this - that you don't like it?

Honestly - a good rec letter system has been almost as good as RFM for getting women that are first generation Greeks or first generation college students a home in the system.

Hey - its how y'all got me!

We only know how our respective sororities use recs during membership selection. To start pointing fingers at people and ask what they are doing about it within their organization is not helpful to the conversation.

You're right. I know that there is NOTHING I'm going to be able to do to change the rush process at those schools. But I also know that in a discussion of why some schools require them and others don't when the results are the exact same, it bears repeating that there is NO valid reason to require all the man hours it takes to get this herculean task solved. Obviously it will be done the long way from here to eternity because it fits the culture, but don't confuse that with being a GOOD system.