booooooooo on original topics. ha!

as for the foods, yes they're carb/sodium laced but at least its not fast food. the co-op clubs around here also include fresh fruits and veggies, but mostly cause they're buying from local farms too.

- m

So you're saying that we don't only owe lazy people free food in exchange for sitting on their asses.. but we also owe them healthy, expensive, luxurious food? Nice.

Healthy food is a luxury, not a right. Poor people don't get to have luxuries -- and yes, in this case, they'll lead shorter lives (which is probably better for society anyhow... shaving an extra 10-20 years off of their lives will save us all bundles of cash). I don't think that's intentional -- but it's certainly a fringe benefit.

You might raise the issue of children.. well, I do think we ought to be doing more in our schools to ensure that at least there, they get healthy food.

The trouble is that schools often have to choose between feeding their students a healthy diet and feeding their students enough calories to keep them from becoming malnourished. Further, even if the parents did have the $, they'd probably spend it on junk anyhow. Junk is easier to prepare and generally, when kids are faced with the choice between a taco town taco and an apple, the kids are going for choice "A."

did i just read that right?? let me see if i got this straight...poor, unhealthy people who eat bad food die early, and that is a fringe benefit for everyone else who pays taxes???

:( healthy food is not a luxury. organic, radiated apples grown on only 3 trees in america is a luxury. a bag of salad or a banana is not. free range certified corn-fed beef is a luxury. a pack of chicken hot dogs is not.

that has got to be one of the coldest things ive ever heard! hell, why feed children healthy foods? i guess the earlier we kill them off too the better society is!

:mad: pardon my sarcasm everyone, but that just wasn't right!

Healthy foods cost more.

Are you suggesting that expensive things which aren't 100% necessary to get the job done are somehow not a luxury? How is it that you define luxury?

As for being cold... I think being cold is the only way to define policy. We have a limited supply of money. We should recognize that we can't do everything we want. Therefore, we have to prioritize. Making sure lazy people live long lives comes in at the bottom of my list.

How much cheaper for us all is it going to be if that lazy person dies at 50 of a massive coronary as compared to living to the age of 85 in a state-run nursing home? The difference is probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of our tax dollars per person. I view these people as leaches. Society is better off with them gone -- either they find work and can afford healthy, luxurious food or they sit on their asses and die young. It's still their choice.

Why is that?

I don't even want to get into the grocery store/fresh produce issue in the Hill District here, except to say it's a freaking disgrace and "the grocery store was looted in the MLK riots" is not a valid excuse. :mad:

It costs more to bring to the market because quite a bit of it goes bad on the shelves as opposed to packaged and preserved foods which once placed on the shelves will generally sell (eventually).

Healthy food does not necessarily equal fresh vegetables and fruit. Just because something has a preservative or two in it does not make it unhealthy.

I actually did a little looking around. Apparently, there are programs out there which can help people make good decisions while remaining faithful to their budgets.

Like all other such programs though, they must be taken advantage of in order to do any good for people. The government cannot force people to eat healthy food or to feed it to their kids. As long as the kids aren't showing any outward signs of being malnourished, it's tough for the government to know when to intervene.

I totally agree, but then again I compete in Figure/Fitness, so I'm not really a good person to ask. But none of that stuff would not get me "stage ready" (i.e. none of it is considered "Eating Clean".). Bring on the skinless chicken breasts and the sweet potatoes, baby!

Most likely, it's because the things that make food 'unhealthy' also allow it to be mass-produced easily and efficiently. It's easy to find a vat of man-made fat, or factory-farm out a ton of crappy foods - and more cost-effective.

Everyone wants free-range chicken until they realize it costs 300% more to produce.

lets be honest here...there are three levels of food.

your really bad for you crap.
the ok stuff that most of us buy.
the really ritzy stuff.

most of us can only afford the ok stuff. the most "luxurious" item ive ever bought was chocolate soy milk, and dont get it twisted, it was on sale! if i even had the $ to buy free range chicken and radiated organic pears, i would still get the regular ones. im sorry, who here, on a regular income, can afford the super healthy stuff?

Kevin, sweetheart...

I am not understanding your point. Generally, to bring most foods to market to fit the public health standards, there is some treatment. Moreover, we are at least 2-3 generations away from cultivars and a former agrarian society. Most of fresh produced that is not grown on the west coast of the US is grown in Central and South America. Some is shipped from Asia and the Pacific Rim.

So this makes the healthy food issue one of a business decision... Most ghettos do not have safe grocers and at best, when the public health officials get there, the mom and pop food stores need to be cited and shutdown. The other issue is most poor people are ignorant. They do not read food labels in any language. So, comfort foods will more abundantly purchased versus healthy food anytime.

The other issue is most poor people like quick and easy microwavable foods. Foods made from scratch... Friends of mine want to take some kind of cooking class. While some find that fun and interesting, I know how to cook, from de-feathering or de-scaling to full course meal. That is because my mother and grandmother taught me. But, most people do not cook, barely boil water. So, the choice of going to the grocery store with a list to purchase necessary items is a foreign concept to many. Then, the get the ready made meals anyway, which Safeway, Kroger and Whole Foods have marketed to... C'mon, you bake pizzas? While tasty, is that healthy everyday? And McDonald's are now in some larger grocery chains--like SuperTargets and Walmarts...

Also, they have these fast food joints that are the worst kind of food consumption for everyone. But people like them. So how are we going to legislate better healthy eating habits when people want to be supersized?

And the schools have found a way to capitalize on that market...

Did you have to take Hygiene or Consumer Ed in public school?

They canceled those classes when I got to high school. So we are talking about over 20 years of kids not having these kinds of classes.

Monet, we more-less agree.

I think you hit at the fact that these things cost more is a business decision.

I think you're also correct that even if these things were more available, most folks would still opt for the crap food.

I think we're more-less agreeing that there is a problem that poor/uneducated lazy people won't cook for themselves, won't eat right, etc. Neither of us is really claiming that there's a solution.

I think where we differ is that I think this is not a problem -- that it's in society's interest for these folks to lead short lives.

:confused:!

go to a grocery and try to buy food for one person for $21.00! Oh, a week!

Milk, 3.49 1/2 gal., if you can find it for that price. Eggs, $1.29 or 1.49, instant potatoes for 3.29, hot dogs for 1.39, bread, 1.89, butter .99, pizza for 1.59, insant gravey for .49 a packet, oh, how about meat, ground beef for 2.49 a lb.

Have we reached $21.oo yet?

Forget about anything else that might be a treat, Chow Mein, Boiled Shrimp, Chicken now at at 1.49 lb. Even Leg quarters that would go for .29 - .39 lb now .79 lb.

S**T people are amzaing on what they can do!;)

I dunno where you're buying milk, but you're getting royally ripped off if you're paying $3.49 for a half gallon. I never pay more than $1 for a half gallon of milk because Kroger has it on sale every other week with their 10/$10 sales. I buy a couple chocolate and a couple skim and freeze one of each so I have some for the week it's not on sale.

I disagree that healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy food. Frozen pizzas are $4 a piece (unhealthy) but you can get 4 packages of frozen veggies for that when they're on sale. If you watch for the sales, you can get ground turkey for the same price as ground beef. Lite/Wheat bread costs the same thing as White bread. Not counting "staples" like sugar, flour, spices, etc, I think I could easily eat for $21 a week when I really think about it. Bananas are really cheap. A bag of oranges are $2.99. It wouldn't be super fun but it's doable. Concentrate lemonade and orange juice of the store brand also go on sale at 10/$10. I have to say, I love Kroger for their sales. Also, they don't require you to buy 10 to get the savings. So, 10/$10 also means 1/$1. Not all stores do that.

Family packs of pork chops, chicken and ground beef generally go on sale on opposite weeks from eachother. I buy one family pack of meat each pay period. One pay, I get pork chops, the next I get chicken, the next I get beef. I freeze a lot of stuff. In fact, my biggest cost saving feature is a large freezer in the basement.

I buy turkey lunch meat and freeze it in individual servings as soon as I get home. If I put it on a kids sandwich frozen, it thaws by the time they eat lunch. I can also grab a slice and toss it in with an egg for scrambled eggs and ham (add green food coloring to make it fun for the kids.. green eggs and ham). Before I started doing that, the lunch meat would go bad before we ate it all and I was throwing a lot of food away. Now I use every slice. It's little things that take a little effort but save you a ton of money.

Anyway, those are some of my grocery savings tips. I use them along with my time saving tips. For example, when I get that large package of ground beef or turkey, I immediately make a couple dinners worth of meatballs, a meatloaf, some hamburgers and then brown a bunch and make taco meat or sloppy joes. They all get frozen so when we have to eat fast because the kids have activities to get to, it's just a matter of warming things up. Super easy to make some nachos if you've pre-grated the cheese, chopped the tomatoes and just have to nuke the meat. Make it from turkey meat and you have a pretty cheap and easy meal. I spend about 2 hours every Sunday doing "pre-cooking" like this. I also wash/cut up all the fruit and put it in baggies for individual serving sizes. I used to end up throwing fruit out too, but when it's ready to eat, it gets eaten first.