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GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   Alumnae Initiation (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=208)
-   -   Your thoughts on AI: discussion goes here. (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=81136)

bluefish81 10-04-2006 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adpiucf (Post 1333323)
As stated, we are not against the initiation of members as alumnae sisters. We are against a Greek Chat forum promoting Alumnae Initiation. AI is not recruitment, AI is not a new niche of membership that we are seeking to fill. It's a small aspect of sorority life and usually reserved for someone with a connection to a sorority. The ones who join through these means don't need GC to service their goal.

I again request this forum be deleted as the current climate of sorority AI is not in keeping with the open promotion of AI.

AI is not the wave of the future. Collegiate membership is, and will always be, the lifeblood of our organizations so long as we are members of the NPC.

Thank you.
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement.

If AI is the "wave of the future" then why do we need to continue to have collegiate chapters? Why not save some serious cash and just close those down and maintain our alumnae chapters? This could save each of the 26 NPC organizations hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in insurance and facility costs, not to mention all the other fees. Why aren't we doing this? Because AI is NOT the wave of the future.

Unregistered- 10-04-2006 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1333463)

I, personally, have no problem with AI information being online as long as it's not ritual, and I still maintain that, despite what some say, some information about AI can be public.

And what, pray tell, would that information be?

If you want to use that whole "but that information was in our Quarterly, therefore IT IS PUBLIC!!!" reasoning, go ahead. But you know and I know that most, if not all, NPCs don't have AI info online for good reason.

I know for a fact that GreekChat is frowned upon by International Council. Why the heck would they want their membership information posted here?

So, good luck trying to convince IHQ that AI info can be public.

Quote:
From valkyrie:
Are our opinions enough? What if another AGD who posts here disagrees with you and thinks no AGD AI information should be posted on GC?
*Raises hand*

DSTCHAOS 10-04-2006 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1333357)
But if the other groups don't require the information to be withheld in such a way, aren't you infringing on other people's expression unnecessarily?

I think someone mentioned one solution of allowing each sorority to have its own AI sticky/thread, if it chooses to and if such a forum wouldn't violate their policies.

This will prevent the whole "that's not OUR policy" and "how can you speak for EVERYONE" thing altogether.

UGAalum94 10-04-2006 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS (Post 1333476)
I think someone mentioned one solution of allowing each sorority to have its own AI sticky/thread, if it chooses to and if such a forum wouldn't violate their policies.

This will prevent the whole "that's not OUR policy" and "how can you speak for EVERYONE" thing altogether.
Well, in my mind it would. I would assume that the authority to regulate the AI forums if they were assigned in the GLO sections would rest with that forum moderator. I also think that IHQ probably could contact the moderator if they were concerned about what was posted.


OTW, I think the stuff from the Quarterly is probably fair game. As would be the experiences of AI members who explained how the process went for them. Really, it would depend on the question asked. But I don't think the program itself is secret. Invitation only, yes; secret, no.

It seems to me that IHQ should make their contempt for Greek Chat more public. Maybe I'll get a PM from them pointing out the error of my ways.

I think the same general guidelines that work for the forum generally could work in an AI forum. There are some areas that are clearly understood to be ritual and secret. There are some areas which are considered bad taste or un-panhellenic, but allowed. There are some areas which are completely open.

Unregistered- 10-04-2006 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1333482)

OTW, I think the stuff from the Quarterly is probably fair game. As would be the experiences of AI members who explained how the process went for them. Really, it would depend on the question asked. But I don't think the program itself is secret. Invitation only, yes; secret, no.
So everybody knows that AGD does AI.

That's still not enough reason to keep an AI subforum open, sorry.

I'd also throw caution with AIs who explain how the process went for them. Not all AI processes are the same, and I'd hate for any PNAM to think, "OMG she got her sponsor on GC even though she didn't know her IRL...maybe I can get mine from GC too!" :mad:

UGAalum94 10-04-2006 08:32 PM
OTW, you mean they vary from chapter to chapter or from group to group?

With my last few comments, I had in mind a GLO specific AI sub-forum on each GLO's forum, and I'd think they'd have the same policies within the group.

Excuse me for my ignorance here, but the idea of trying to pick up a sponsor on GreekChat just seems so dumb. Why would anyone sponsor someone they didn't know in real life? I can see a PAI shopper looking, but I can't really see a member agreeing to sponsor some they had never met.

But still, I don't think the answer is to supress discussion completely.

SmartBlondeGPhB 10-04-2006 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1333410)
I'm not part of the collective agreement that discussion of AI is discussion of membership selection, at least in the sense that it must be kept secret. There are open parts of the process as well as secret, at least in some GLOs. You may consider this point proved, but I don’t.

I have no strong feelings about AI as a process, but if a woman who joined through AI wanted to share her story, I would consider it as valid as a rush story or a COB story. She would be sharing her path to Alpha Gamma Delta as she experienced it, and as she went through through the process, she would be unlikely to know any secret information. After she went through it, she would be as bound by our ritual as any member not to share any secrets of AI membership selection.

But to be honest, I never much read the AI forum, and I don’t think I’d personally miss it if it were gone. I’m more concerned with the effort to suppress speech that you just don’t like, or you just don’t think should be out there.

I don’t think things should be deleted that don’t violate the TOS or the rules of the particular group being discussed. If you create the expectation that sub-forums or threads can be deleted if several very vocal people demand it, this site will be less helpful and less interesting.

If you represent your group, regulate the activity of your group, but don’t try to limit the discussion for others.

I just want to add: Had the idea of creating an AI forum for each group rather than one for all been the only focus of this thread, I probably would have been down with that. But because that idea has alternated with an "AI shouldn't even be discussed online ever" argument, it's a little suspicious to me now.
Then please start sharing your group's information. I would love to hear it.

Jen 10-04-2006 08:52 PM
There are too many different policies and ways of doing things for one forum to handle successfully. That being said, having 26 separate forums does nothing to help. Most AIs that come on GC have little or no idea what groups to contact and then pick a few and contact them - their cover would be blown by posting in a forum in each group's section, not to mention people would see they're contacting quite a few. It would turn very messy, very fast.

There was a suggestion early on - a paragraph detailing that some sororities do AI, but it is membership information and can't be posted online. Contact the NPC site or a sorority for more info. If anyone on GC is willing to help you, they will contact you. Then the AI can post their username and any GCer that wanted to help could. But that would be the only AI stuff you'd see.

I'd rather have this forum be for discussing AI, how it is to be one, the good and bad sides of it etc, instead of a rush-like forum with stories and things.

UGAalum94 10-04-2006 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB (Post 1333512)
Then please start sharing your group's information. I would love to hear it.
Well, since you are apparently already in a NPC group, you aren't eligible, but what is it you would like to know?

Really, I think I've been pretty forthcoming about how this isn't a topic near and dear to me, but there is some public information about AI.

I get the feeling, SmartBlondeGPhB, that you're just trying to be smart, but yes, if somebody asked me something that A) I knew and B) believed to be public, I'd tell her.

UGAalum94 10-04-2006 09:20 PM
I feel like I'm in a conversation that I'm tired of having, and yet I feel obligated to response to posts that address my ideas. If you want me to post to answer a question (I mean I'm not running away mad or scared), please PM and let me know, because in my case with this issue, silence doesn't mean approval (or that I am unwilling to respond); it just means I'm worn out and bored at the same time. I want to quit watching this thread, please don't think me rude.

I think having open communication is more valuable that trying to control discussion of AI. I think I'm on the record with that.

Good luck!

EE-BO 10-04-2006 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ariesrising (Post 1333516)
There are too many different policies and ways of doing things for one forum to handle successfully. That being said, having 26 separate forums does nothing to help. Most AIs that come on GC have little or no idea what groups to contact and then pick a few and contact them - their cover would be blown by posting in a forum in each group's section, not to mention people would see they're contacting quite a few. It would turn very messy, very fast.
Precisely- and it would get messy for a reason :)

There have been several comments this evening suggesting that GC, in one form or another, should have resources for those seeking to AI- and in what format such support should exist (1 forum, 26 forums etc.)

But this totally misses the whole point.

AI is a path to membership granted at the discretion of a GLO.

Why would any GLO want to publish any policies or procedures for a form of membership over which they have sole discretion? What is the benefit to the GLO to restrain their freedom in granting membership? (and no the answer is not to say that they are missing out on all kinds of great adults who would AI if it were easier.)

The message is clear- the GLOs do NOT want to promote the AI route to membership. And it should be obvious why.

The GLOs, not GC and CERTAINLY not PNAIs, are the ones who decide how AI will work, and it is academic at best for there to be a debate about the best way a non-GLO entity can provide accurate and helpful information for PNAIs seeking initiation. Such information is just not available.

Unregistered- 10-04-2006 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1333498)
OTW, you mean they vary from chapter to chapter or from group to group?
They vary from PNAM to PNAM. I've seen PNAMs in the same organization who had completely opposite AI journeys.

Quote:
With my last few comments, I had in mind a GLO specific AI sub-forum on each GLO's forum, and I'd think they'd have the same policies within the group.
I really don't think even that's necessary. greeklawgirl's done a great job with her stickied post at the top of the AGD forum, and whatever little public AI there is regarding the Fraternity is already found her post.

Quote:
Excuse me for my ignorance here, but the idea of trying to pick up a sponsor on GreekChat just seems so dumb. Why would anyone sponsor someone they didn't know in real life? I can see a PIA shopper looking, but I can't really see a member agreeing to sponsor some they had never met.
Well, it's happened before. And GC knows I'm not making this up.

But still, I don't think the answer is to supress discussion completely.[/quote]

MTSUGURL 10-04-2006 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ariesrising (Post 1333516)
I'd rather have this forum be for discussing AI, how it is to be one, the good and bad sides of it etc, instead of a rush-like forum with stories and things.
Ok, I'm not a member of an NPC (I know most of you know that, but I feel like I have to make the disclaimer for those who don't) but I still say "Hear, hear!"

EE-BO 10-04-2006 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphagamuga (Post 1333541)
I think having open communication is more valuable that trying to control discussion of AI. I think I'm on the record with that.
But the real question is, where is the value in having open discussion of a process that is not defined by publicly stated rules and is intended to be something the GLO offers- not that the PNAI asks for?

Those who are offered AI, which is how this is typically done, will not need the guidance of strangers on the internet because they will have a close connection with the GLO into which they will be initiated.

Those who are shopping for letters are already going about AI the wrong way and are not only very likely to fail- but will humiliate themselves in the process. How does broadcasting this doomed adventure on a website help that person? How does it help the GLO? How does it help the reputation of the website where it is allowed to take place?

I see your point about freedom of speech being a great thing, but there is a reason most good internet forums that attract lots of members are moderated.

I will admit reading the AI board is very entertaining- and I have read way back into the older posts as time allows, but I have yet to read a story that had a happy ending purely because of the presence of GC. By that I mean a story of someone who came into this with ZERO connection to a sorority and then got initiated 100% as the result of help obtained here.

Instead this gets to be the place where people get the reality check they have coming anyway- and those who give that reality check find out that no good deed goes unpunished.

Granted it is also a place for wonderful new initiates to share their stories or have other respectful and on topic conversations- but it is sometimes hard to see that for all the other stuff.

FuzzieAlum 10-04-2006 10:10 PM
Hmmm ...

I agree with most folks here that the AI forum is not a very good idea. But I can't bring myself to agree with the idea that all membership selection information is ritual. I can go to practically any NPC national site and see that to join as a collegiate someone must be a) female and b) a full-time student c) with a certain GPA. Now how Alpha Xi Delta chooses who to invite to a pref party or who to give a bid to is private. But I have no problem telling you that there is a minimum GPA, and if any other sorority doesn't want people to know they have a minimum GPA too, they're not doing a very good job of keeping it secret.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there are enough good reasons not to have an AI forum that we don't have to stretch for them.

The way I see it, what benefit does the AI forum provide? As far as I can tell, it is mostly of aid to sorority shoppers. I don't think this a good enough benefit-cost ratio for a site that supports Greek life. To the extent that NPC sororities (or for that matter any other GLOs) want to make alumnae initiation public, they have other ways to do it, and for the most part they don't choose to publicize it widely. As Greeks, it behooves us to respect what our own and other organizations choose to make public - there is a degree of information between "secret" and "totally public." NPHC groups express this so well when they talk about "discretion." That's what the AI board seems to have lost.


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