The world is multicultural in that it is inhabited by lots of different different people of all sorts of ethnicities. However, there still exists a sort of segregation. There are still many neighborhoods that are predominantly one race or one ethnicity. The schools in these neighborhoods are also going to be predominantly one race or ethnicity. Even in a school that has a good mix of different ethnicities, cliques tend to form along racial divides.

You stated one of your reasons for going Greek was to join like-minded people both socially and in other endeavors. Well I'm sure the same could be said for the ethnic sororities and fraternities as well as the multicultural sororities and fraternities. They may have a different mindset than you, but it doesn't mean that there's no commonality between these organizations and the NPC/NIC orgs, and it certainly doesn't mean that they're less than NPC/NIC orgs in any way. They are real Greeks, they have just as much right/reason/justification for exisiting, and they provide a lot of the same things the older, "more traditional" NPC/NIC orgs provide (strong sisterhood/brotherhood, networking, social events, leadership skills, support in times of need, fun/memorable college experience, giving back to the community, etc.) And with multicultural fraternities and sororities, the members may come from different backgrounds but they are still coming together as like-minded people for the unified purpose of promoting multiculturalism. And multiculturalism isn't about a melting pot. It's not about us all blending together until we're all the same uniform beige-y, tannish color. It's about becoming more worldly by educating yourself about other cultures and educating others about your own culture...and realizing that there is a huge wide world out there beyond your own little corner of the world.

While I'm not really disagreeing with you,but in my experience multi cultural glos tend to take anybody. I just don't really understand the point of a private organization if there are very low requirements for membership, but that is just me.

On a side note, I really get annoyed when people act like segregating yourself is such a small minded thing to do. Simply because I hang out with people like me doesn't make me "uncultured." Most of the members of my all white fraternity are very well traveled, schooled and cultured. We simply have found things we like, and prefer it that way. Lack of diversity doesn't always mean a lack of culture.

While I may not agree with you I have to give you credit for being true to your opinion!

By "tend to take anybody" do you mean that you've observed that MCGLOs have no standards or that they don't take cultural/ethnic background into account? I will only speak for Theta Nu Xi, but our screening process is stringent. However, we do not take cultural/ethnic background into account. This is why we have a high number of women in influential arenas like law and politics. We have lawyers, doctors, CEOs, etc. in a high concentration for such a young organization, if I do say so myself. Theta Nu Xi accepts leaders and scholars. It's quality not quantity for us.

Regarding culture vs. cultures, I believe you're talking about two different things. I grew up in Atlanta but what I consider to be my family name (not my current last name) and my family home ties me to the Old South. The family is quite established and operates in that "culture" (although I have all but shed that image). Culture, in that sense, and what I think you're talking about is more akin to "high class" than anything. Cultures (as in multicultural) is about a conglomeration of varying international group identities. We have thousands of distinct cultures within the U.S. that cross ethnic boundaries.

What I meant by taking anybody is that the multi cultural orgs I've seen often tend to value the "multi cultural" aspect than anything else, and thus just take anyone who wants to be a member.

Regarding the cultural issue, I'm not quite sure I follow. What I meant is that people like myself, who were in all white fraternities, who prefer upper class neighborhoods with fewer minorities, are often considered to be hiding from the world, or "uncultured." What people fail to see is that many, if not most of us, are better educated and traveled than the large majority of people. We're not hiding in our own corner of the world, or unaware of the big world out there. We've seen it, and we also have found a part we prefer.

Basicaly, let us placve it where it really belongs.

Multi Culture, Latin, or Asian started their groups for the same reason all of Our Organizations did, for ideal and commaradrerie of like people. Or people that one feels comforitable with.

Now then the question comes up, whose fault is this?:(

Guess that should about answer that question.

The problem most people have is that they see you saying things like neighborhoods with a low number of minorities in them... and see that as racist. I get the impression you like nice, expensive, high class neighborhoods. That quality has nothing to do with the race of the people living there. Yes, there are probably fewer well off black people in the south, or at least your part of it, but you have to understand that I live in a nice neighborhood, right by a park, where no one is rich but no one is poor and we're probably 50% white and 50% not.

Do you see why from MY perspective race/culture has little to do with quality?

But these same kids who live in predominantly white, upper class neighbourhoods may have attended boarding schools where they met, roomed and hung out with students from all over the world. In any case upper class neighbourhoods in some parts of the continent are actually quite diverse. I'd say that if upper class people were hiding at all, they're hiding from lower income people more than they are from minorities. It's just that in some areas, upper income families tend to be white.

Well I'll be blunt. I'm not a racist, but I am prejudiced. I prefer not to be around low class things. My statement about preferring low minorities was probably not the best portrayal of how I feel, but it is true. For example, if I lived in a neighborhood with a lot of minorities, but who were well off, well educated, Christian, and classy, then I'd be fine with that. Unfortunately, that is rare. For example, I live in the wealthiest county in GA, and word eventually got out. Some wealthy minorities started moving in, and then the not so wealthy ones followed. Since then, we've dropped from one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the country to around 15, home prices have dropped, and crime has shot up. Now I'm sure some will say "well that has nothing to do with minorities," and while that is a nice PC thing to say, it is also untrue. Minorities attract more minorities, and while I have nothing against the members of the upper class, large minority populations often breed conditions I would not wish to live in.

I see. I haven't personally observed this phenomenon.

I think my question was regarding your definition of uncultured. I believe I understand. If "uncultured" is a nice way of saying "discriminatory," I understand what you're saying. To that I would say people are comfortable where they are comfortable. The basic reasons you gravitate toward upper class neighborhoods and a white fraternity are probably the same basic reasons that I gravitate toward orgs like Theta Nu Xi. To each his own. My problem comes when you don't acknowledge the value of my organization to me when I acknowledge the value of yours to you. Of course, there may be other negative issues under the surface that caused you to make the choice you made. I can honestly say that the reason I didn't seriously pursue a Panhell org was because of the high number of white women. But that doesn't devalue my organization or my commitment to it. I'm continually growing. Even as I've come to terms with my personal issues, I still haven't had any desire to renounce my membership and pursue a Panhel org.

I won't deny this, but I will ask what you are doing with this privilege to affect change for the better? I do believe this is everyone's responsibility, especially in the U.S. where we have so much. I by no means have a socialist/communist bent, but I am compassionate. You shouldn't be made to help, but if you don't, I'd like to know why.

Ok. Again, I don't think the issue is that people consider you ignorant, but that they consider that you do know but are still discriminatory/elite. And again I'll say, to each his own. I don't think it's appropriate for anyone to question your reason for joining your org. You are where you are in your life and, regardless of the way others may feel about that, you are where you're supposed to be. The rest of us can go jump in a lake. But, I have to say again, your attitude toward organizations not like your own is certainly the catalyst for the negative attitudes of others who are not in similar organizations. I would also say to you that you don't have all the answers and you have not finished growing, no matter how old you are. Your opinions could change with new experiences. Don't get wedged into one way of thinking. That would not only be a pity but it would also be a disservice to your future self! There are things you can't understand (and may never understand). If you realize this and are willing to step into the shoes of people unlike yourself, you'll go a long way in understanding why people might have a negative perception of you.

And actually, Your point is well taken and proven as I am sure anyone with half a mind can attest to.

But I am sure this will light up the thread!:D

It depends on the minority group. When wealthy Hong Kongers moved to Vancouver (and Toronto) in droves, real estate prices went UP (and yes, people were complaining about that too). Many bought regular sized, post WWII homes, tore them down and replaced these houses with mini McMansions. The houses that they tore down would cost in 2006 Toronto terms, perhaps $300,000, but these mini McMansions would probably cost more than twice as much (perhaps even close to $1 M Canadian, depending on the area) These families also up the standards in schools (if the kids go public) as their kids often earn the highest grades and are in the advanced classes. They make up a good percentage of students in the private system too, especially at the more traditional schools.

Your values are not universal. I don't care about wealth, religion, class or ethnicity in my neighborhood selection. I do care about self-respect, responsibility, hard work and honesty in my neighbors. These values have more to do with personal outlook than anything else.

Jeni, that was a good post. I like it when people make posts easy for me to read and respond to. Yeah, I guess I am somewhat of an elitist. My response to this has always been that I don't think I'm inherently better than everyone, I just prefer my life to that of others. Also, I recognize that each person's GLO is important to them. Just because a multi cultural group has no value to me, doesn't mean it is without value to others. My problem arises from people who try to force their opinions on others. Of course, its fine here, this is a message board, and I enjoy the debate. But there is a strong push from society to diversify everything, and that annoys me. I don't want every fraternity to be like mine. What I do want is to be left to do as we please. I would also prefer people quit making continued statements about us that we are racists or ignorant, etc. Everyone has a right to do as they please, so long as it does not harm others. I only wish we could do as we please without the degrading social commentary. Note, this isn't directed towards anyone in specific.

For my purposes, the minorities I speak of are black people and hispanics. Also, Jeni, the values you listed are generally part of being "classy," at least in my mind. I would not want to live in a neighborhood of untrustworthy people, regardless of their wealth.