Pi Phi Letters
 

Pi Phi does not forbid new members from wearing letters. In fact, parent's clothing and our mother's pin has our letters on them.

Individual chapters may discourage NM's from wearing letters until they initiate and come to learn the importance of them and I agree that this could be considered hazing under the definitions of "No members, no new members".

WRT new member education, if it's a requirement for initiation under the statutes of a GLO, then I would guess that the definition of hazing can't apply...

UCLAgirl, don't worry. You won't be denied initiation based on who your friends are. The way SL was set up, with six pledges in the house, isolated them from the rest of the pledges and the sisters. Everybody was put on the defensive.

The reason I point this out is because some chapters use such things as ways of hazing -- and do we make special cases for "good chapters?" I'm sure there are a lot of chapters who look good on paper but haze like crazy.

I am very against any form of hazing because I have seen it happen to someone I know and love, and she accepted it and that she was also a lower person because she was a pledge. Any hazing is bull s***, even making pledges wearing pins 24 hours a day.

Jen

Sorry if i'm pissy, but I'm a very tired gal!

dont apologize jen - thats the great thing about a bulletin board - everyone can have voice their opinions - and everyone can learn from each other :)

I said I wasn't going to say anything, BUT it has come obvious that some people are not realizing some things.

The definition of term "hazing" is relative to your organization. Things that are defined as hazing by (examples only) Phi Mu, Alpha Sigma Kappa, or Delta Delta Delta MAY NOT be hazing to Kappa Kappa Gamma, Delta Sigma Theta or Alpha Chi Omega and vice versa. So for one to come on any message board, read a brief snippit of what one person describes as part of their pledge/new member/associate member/whatever your organization calls it process and admonish it as "hazing" is ignorant at best. It is ignorant of the FACT that not every organization does everything the same way as you & those in your little bubble do. Yes, there are somethings that are OBVIOUSLY hazing. But for the LIFE of me, I CANNOT understand what part of wearing a pin during a pledge process is hazing. :confused:

Re: Pi Phi Letters
 

Oops... I know there are at least 3 NPC sororities that forbid new members from wearing letters. I know AEPhi and Theta are two of them, and I thought Pi Phi was the other... sorry <sheepish grin>

I wasn't allowed to wear my letters until I was initiated. At my campus, Chi Omega pledges weren't allowed to, either. We didn't have AEPi or Theta.

And aren't anti-hazing policies set by the NPC, and not separately by each organization in it?

Another interesting point is that hazing doesn't just apply to new members... anything that makes anyone uncomfortable can be considered hazing (not just in my org. but by state law). This means that activities planned for graduating seniors or big sisters could be considered hazing.

HELL...LIFE is one big pledge process with continious HAZING everyday!

Joining the military is hazing.

Working in Corporate America is Hazing

What my founders endured to even participate in their first public Service Project...Was hazing


If you dont want anyone to tell you what to wear on a given day...More power to you. Pledge the organization that will allow you to do that. In the meantime...anyone who pledges mine has a pin to wear 24hr and 7 days a week and if it is taken off...they are no longer pledging.

End of story.

12dn94dst - I have no idea why you feel the need to call me ignorant and someone who lives in a bubble. There is no place for such insults here.

What I am describing to you is the hazing policy for ANY ORGANIZATION as described in many campus student life books. The same rules apply for sports organizations, student government or even the student newspaper. I do not live in a bubble. I am a reporter and write about this stuff all the time, and I've seen it on many campuses. Flat out, IT IS HAZING.

I'm done posting here, guys and gals. I'm tired of being judged for telling what is right.

Jen

I know that there is a special board devoted to hazing, but I just had to ask some questions. If all of that is considered hazing, why don't you all just initiate the members right after they get a bid? Why even have a educational process (or whatever you might call it) if they aren't required to do anything? Wouldn't the meetings for the new members be considered hazing too because the active members aren't required to go, or are the meeting just come "whenever you feel like." Now I know why so many sorority members I used to see around campus when I was in school not have any pride in their sorority because they knew nothing about the history and only stayed in it for the first year just to get the "free stuff."

It's sad that it because some people got out of hand that now hazing has to be classified so strictly.

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Did I mention you by name dzjen27? Did I even quote you? Wait, let me go back & read my post & see...NOPE, sure didn't. I was speaking GENERALLY in reference to SEVERAL comments that have been made on the board on the topic of what hazing is/isn't. It just happened that your comment was among them & the most recent. I'm sorry you feel I personally attacked, but that's your issue. I wasn't attacking ANYONE.

Yes, mass accuzations of hazing without knowing that particular organization's rules are ignorant. IN MY OPINION (I am still allowed to have a different opinion here, right??) Ignorant doesn't mean one is stupid, it simply means that one DOES NOT KNOW ANY BETTER. Am I now hazing you for saying you don't know what MY organization's rules on hazing are? :rolleyes: You're not a member so you wouldn't know. Different organizations, even ones WITHIN the same governing body as it's been evidenced here, have different rules. There is NOTHING WRONG with that. Like dsmmi said, if you have a problem with wearing a pin 24 x 7 while pledging, them maybe our organization ain't for you.

Like what was said, each type of greek organization defines hazing in different ways. Michigan doesn't have a state law for hazing and when I looked at my former university's policy on hazing, this is what they consider hazing:

At the least, the word "hazing" includes the following willful acts, with or without the consent of the individual involved:

physical injury, assault or battery
kidnapping or imprisonment
intentionally placing at risk of severe mental or emotional harm (putting "over the edge")
degradation, humiliation, or compromising of moral or religious values
forced consumption of any liquid or solid
placing an individual in physical danger (at risk) which includes abandonment
impairment of physical liberties which include curfews or other interference with academic endeavors.


Like 12dn94dst said, it kind of ignorant to say someone is hazing defined by your organization's policies. Each state doesn't agree on what hazing is, so why should everyone on greekchat agree?

If all of that is considered hazing, why don't you all just initiate the members right after they get a bid? Why even have a educational process (or whatever you might call it) if they aren't required to do anything?

Some orgs are moving to a program that is like the one you're suggesting. For example SFE's Balanced Man Program does something similar. They do have an educational process.

I know that Kappa's New Member Program was established with the intent of cutting down on the possibility of hazing. Our purpose is not to separate new sisters from the rest of us (and yes, NMs are considered sisters, just not active ones). Our purpose is to integrate them as fully as possible while they are learning about the fraternity. Once they've learned enough for the Secrets to make sense, they're Initiated into active membership.

I don't like the idea that one should have to prove oneself continually in order to earn Initiation. In my opinion (and as I don't know anything about the NPHC or MCGLOs, I speak only about NIC/NPC), bidding a person means that we want him/her to be a brother/sister. Not "We want to give you the chance to prove yourself as someone who could maybe be a brother/sister." That's what rush is for. We meet men/women. If we are mutually compatible, we bid them. They become members. It's that simple. In my experience, if we've made a mistake, if that person has some sort of royal character flaw or whathaveyou, she'll usually depledge.

And I just want to go on the record as saying that I wholeheartedly agree with Candace's statement about "feeling the presence" of sisterhood. I had a new Initiate, one who'd been leukwarm about the whole process, tell me that our Initiation was the most beautiful and wonderful thing she'd ever seen. She is now an incredibly dedicated, loyal, and involved active member.

aephi alum,

Just wanted to say, "No problem" about the Pi Phi letters thing. It's hard to keep track of which NPC does what...even I have problems remembering that we don't do that! :D

In my mind, the NPC definition of hazing says it best,

"Hazing is defined as any action or situation with or without consent which recklessly, intentionally or unintentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student, or creates risk of injury, or causes discomfort, embarrassment, harassment or ridicule or which willfully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership in a chapter or colony of an NPC member fraternity. All member groups will affirm their policies denouncing hazing and inform their membership of this NPC position denouncing hazing through mailings and through their inter/national magazines."

there's my $0.02