Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1820235)

Rest in peace.

ETA: Note that this post is different than saying "decent dancer and even worse human being...the world lost a good one...." I suspect that MJ was involved in some things that could've contributed to his passing. But, that doesn't make him a bad person to me nor does it minimize the impact of his career and his passing for those who feel impacted.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1820241)

I was going back and forth with a group of friends about this, and this is what I wrote:

"The Michael Jackson that many people are mourning has been gone for about 15 years. Nearly everyone has memories of Michael Jackson songs and videos for years before the molestation claims came to light; as someone on NPR said this morning, there's not a Michael Jackson hit that doesn't invoke memories. You remember where you were in your life when "Beat It," "Bad," or "Black or White" was popular. It's probably how our parents felt when John Lennon and Marvin Gaye died. Someone who created the soundtrack to our youth--our wonder years, as it were--is dead, and it reminds us that much more that we're getting older and we're going to die too, regardless of how they actually died.

In other words, the Michael Jackson I and at least a billion other people around the world are mourning is not the one who called his son "Blanket," who was rumored to have purchased the Elephant Man's skeleton, or the one who, as we now know, was addled with painkillers since his brush with death back in the 80s. We are mourning the little kid and the dance machine--in other words, the talented and charismatic entertainer.

It's not my place to determine the veracity of the molestation claims, but I could honestly see them going either way. I'm not a Michael Jackson fan per se; I've never purchased one of his albums, a concert ticket, or a glittery glove. That said, when I heard that he had taken ill and later died, the MJ from "Billie Jean" and the Jackson 5 popped in my head, not the pale, plastic shell of that person who he became in his later years. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of mourners are seeing that person. He's kind of like Elvis that way."

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1820241)

I was going back and forth with a group of friends about this, and this is what I wrote:

"The Michael Jackson that many people are mourning has been gone for about 15 years. Nearly everyone has memories of Michael Jackson songs and videos for years before the molestation claims came to light; as someone on NPR said this morning, there's not a Michael Jackson hit that doesn't invoke memories. You remember where you were in your life when "Beat It," "Bad," or "Black or White" was popular. It's probably how our parents felt when John Lennon and Marvin Gaye died. Someone who created the soundtrack to our youth--our wonder years, as it were--is dead, and it reminds us that much more that we're getting older and we're going to die too, regardless of how they actually died.

In other words, the Michael Jackson I and at least a billion other people around the world are mourning is not the one who called his son "Blanket," who was rumored to have purchased the Elephant Man's skeleton, or the one who, as we now know, was addled with painkillers since his brush with death back in the 80s. We are mourning the little kid and the dance machine--in other words, the talented and charismatic entertainer.

It's not my place to determine the veracity of the molestation claims, but I could honestly see them going either way. I'm not a Michael Jackson fan per se; I've never purchased one of his albums, a concert ticket, or a glittery glove. That said, when I heard that he had taken ill and later died, the MJ from "Billie Jean" and the Jackson 5 popped in my head, not the pale, plastic shell of that person who he became in his later years. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of mourners are seeing that person. He's kind of like Elvis that way."

Originally Posted by KSigkid (Post 1820243)

I think that's fair enough, but I also can't blame people who remember the other side of him. He was a polarizing figure, and I think that came through pretty clearly, both in the bizarre stories that came out in his final years, as well as the tributes that have come out after his death.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1820241)

I was going back and forth with a group of friends about this, and this is what I wrote:

"The Michael Jackson that many people are mourning has been gone for about 15 years. Nearly everyone has memories of Michael Jackson songs and videos for years before the molestation claims came to light; as someone on NPR said this morning, there's not a Michael Jackson hit that doesn't invoke memories. You remember where you were in your life when "Beat It," "Bad," or "Black or White" was popular. It's probably how our parents felt when John Lennon and Marvin Gaye died. Someone who created the soundtrack to our youth--our wonder years, as it were--is dead, and it reminds us that much more that we're getting older and we're going to die too, regardless of how they actually died.

In other words, the Michael Jackson I and at least a billion other people around the world are mourning is not the one who called his son "Blanket," who was rumored to have purchased the Elephant Man's skeleton, or the one who, as we now know, was addled with painkillers since his brush with death back in the 80s. We are mourning the little kid and the dance machine--in other words, the talented and charismatic entertainer.

It's not my place to determine the veracity of the molestation claims, but I could honestly see them going either way. I'm not a Michael Jackson fan per se; I've never purchased one of his albums, a concert ticket, or a glittery glove. That said, when I heard that he had taken ill and later died, the MJ from "Billie Jean" and the Jackson 5 popped in my head, not the pale, plastic shell of that person who he became in his later years. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of mourners are seeing that person. He's kind of like Elvis that way."

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1820262)

It's not even this complex to me. LOL.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1820254)

I don't blame those people either--I see where they're coming from. After all, it's very easy to focus on the bad, or what's most apparent in your memory. For example, for all of the acting and singing successes Vanessa L. Williams has had, there will always be people who see her as nothing more than "Vanessa the Undresser," the girl who lost her Miss America crown after taking dirty pictures. For some people, it's easier to separate the entertainer from the scandal--especially if decades spanned between the fame and the scandal.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1820263)

LOL. It's a Friday, it's raining, and most of my work involves going to construction sites. In other words, it's a slow day. All that brain power and energy has to go somewhere!

Originally Posted by Munchkin03 (Post 1820241)

I was going back and forth with a group of friends about this, and this is what I wrote:

"The Michael Jackson that many people are mourning has been gone for about 15 years. Nearly everyone has memories of Michael Jackson songs and videos for years before the molestation claims came to light; as someone on NPR said this morning, there's not a Michael Jackson hit that doesn't invoke memories. You remember where you were in your life when "Beat It," "Bad," or "Black or White" was popular. It's probably how our parents felt when John Lennon and Marvin Gaye died. Someone who created the soundtrack to our youth--our wonder years, as it were--is dead, and it reminds us that much more that we're getting older and we're going to die too, regardless of how they actually died.

In other words, the Michael Jackson I and at least a billion other people around the world are mourning is not the one who called his son "Blanket," who was rumored to have purchased the Elephant Man's skeleton, or the one who, as we now know, was addled with painkillers since his brush with death back in the 80s. We are mourning the little kid and the dance machine--in other words, the talented and charismatic entertainer.

It's not my place to determine the veracity of the molestation claims, but I could honestly see them going either way. I'm not a Michael Jackson fan per se; I've never purchased one of his albums, a concert ticket, or a glittery glove. That said, when I heard that he had taken ill and later died, the MJ from "Billie Jean" and the Jackson 5 popped in my head, not the pale, plastic shell of that person who he became in his later years. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of mourners are seeing that person. He's kind of like Elvis that way."

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1820262)

It's not even this complex to me. LOL.

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1820428)

Yeah - it seems inordinately simple: the guy was one of the most talented human beings to ever live. He was also, most likely, a total nutjob. It is what it is.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 (Post 1820410)

Someone was asking about the kids, and I think Dateline is saying that their "mother" doesn't really have rights to them, but she may try to come back into the picture.

I think they're saying that legally, the kids will most likely go to his mother Katherine right now.

I feel so badly for them. They were apparently home when was taken to the hospital. That's so sad.

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest (Post 1820434)

Am I the only one who never believed (and I still don't) that those kids are biologically his?