Thanks, NutBrnHair. I always cite my sources, too, so if I copy from somewhere I will be sure and let you know.

From now on, you are to me SWTXBelle, Ph.D. -- Doctor of Phabulousness. :D

I agree that being offered a bid is an honor and not a right. For many orgs, though, the pledge period is a time both for the pledge to learn about the org and demonstrate that he is worthy of the honor, and for the org to get to know the pledge better and satisfy itself that he is worthy of the honor. That's the sense in which I would use "earn."

And ditto on learning at GC a lot about how different groups approach things differently. Did you have to mention skinning a cat, though?! http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/animal0003.gif

No worries - the cat referenced in the idiomatic expression is actually a catFISH, so you needn't worry for your mystical black pelt!

I see what you mean, 33, but I don't know if I would be more insulted by the idea that I can't be articulate, or that if I seem to espouse the party line I must be quoting from a membership manual. Both ideas seem to buy into stereotypes - the one that sorority women are ditzy airheads, the other that HQ is the only place that fervently believes in anything other than PARTY PARTY PARTY. :cool:

Is that what you gathered from my post? :rolleyes: I am no stranger to writing and publishing.

My post was about the tone and the "official correspondence-ish" message. I don't give a damn about her penwomanship.

Right and it's interesting that "earn" is often reduced to hazing. Not just on GC.

Good grief.

For the record, my handwriting is terrible. ;)

Mine is great and I knew I chose the wrong word, smarty. ;)

Earn your letters! They shouldnt be simply handed over on the first day of your pledge process.

Have you even bothered to read the whole thread?

What might work for you may not work for everyone. Thank goodness for that.

As an NPC woman, I'm glad that we don't put an emphasis on "earning" letters. I don't, however, begrudge anyone who thinks it's an important part of their groups rites (as long as "earning" really doesn't mean hazing.) For AOII (and I presume the other NPC groups) the women we choose to invite for membership are felt to represent the ideals of our organizations before being taught them. The new member period is really meant to educate the member so she can decide whether or not to make that lifetime commitment not to determine whether or not she is worthy of initiation (no need to comment on our lower than stellar alum involvement rates, we're well aware of them!) Turning down a new member for initiation is an almost unheard of event. We let them wear our letters because even without being initiated, they are MEMBERS of the organization. It's also really good advertisement, which in the cut-throat world of NPC recruitment is extremely important. If other groups do it differently, that's their prerogative. We like the way we do it.

i know my chapter of SAE is strict on not allowing pledges to wear letters of anykind. We see it as they have to earn the right to wear our letters.

teehee :)

Well said.

Thanks, Peppy!

We are not allowed to wear letters during our new member period at all. Not on a shirt, tote, or even on our cars. We can wear Phi Mu spelled out but not the Greek letters. This is because we don't know what the mean until after initiation. This to me makes it more special when you finally get to wear letters to school. The only exception is if we have a big Philanthropy event like kids day then we can borrow letters for the day. I remember I wore mine as long as possible that day!

Pray tell - if a pledge doesn't know what the letters mean, and thus shouldn't wear them, why do you allow pledges to wear Phi Mu spelled out? They don't know what "Phi Mu" means as a pledge, right? So what is the difference?
I realize this is far snarkier than I usually am, and if I could figure out a non-snarky way to write it, I would. From a logical standpoint, I just can't see why the letters themselves are verboten, while writing it out is okay.

I'm with you all the way on this one, SWTX. I love it when a Chi Omega chapter uses this argument and I just say, "What does their pledge (read: new member) pin say?"

LOL, nut. I had to look it up myself. BTW, I really like Chi Omega's New Member website. I've learned a lot about XO as a result of that.

I know there are several HQs that prohibit their NMs from wearing the Greek Letters and I definitely respect that. However, when you have a sorority that allows their NMs to wear the letters and an individual chapter makes up rules of their own, I can't help but question their motives for doing so. NMs think they have to earn their letters, and collegians continue that "tradition" because that's how they did it.

Personally, I'm glad that I was allowed to wear letters starting from Bid Day.

Here's my take on it, FWIW - a new member can wear the letters because they represent being a member of the organization. That is what the letters mean to most of the world - but to the initiated members, they mean far more. When a non-Gamma Phi sees our letters, they think "Hey! There's a member of Gamma Phi" or, "Hey!That's the Gamma Phi house."

Same with pledges/new members. They wear the letters to say "Hey! I'm a member of Gamma Phi." After initiation, they take on the additional, secret meaning.

Hey!

eta - and if a group just doesn't want their new members to wear their letters, that's fine by me. Just don't try to justify it logically with an illogical argument.

AEPhi is one of those NPC orgs that does not allow new members to wear letters. Why? Unless you're an initiated sister, you don't know the full meaning of the letters, nor have you made a full lifetime commitment to the sorority. New members can represent by wearing their ribbons, NM pins, or items that read "AEPhi" or "Alpha Epsilon Phi", but no Greek letters until initiation. So we welcome our NMs, but we also ask them to wait until initiation for the privilege of wearing the Greek letters.

Most NPC orgs don't let new members wear or own anything with the crest. AEPhi's NM pin actually is the crest, minus the Greek letters.

You say tomayto, I say tomahto.

Sigh.

eta - I'm all for AEPhi handling their business anyway they wish - more power to them. But I still have to wonder (see below). Also, is this AEPhi HQ policy, or your chapter? I find many chapters have rules that are more strict than the inter/national GLO's policies.
Upon reflection, the fact that the crest IS the new member pin, minus the letters, is probably the strongest argument for AEPhi's policy. The letters are what distinguishes the new member pin from the initiated member's crest. So to over-logical me, that makes sense.

Still waiting on this one.

Questions (of course you dont have to answer, being that it could be privy to your org):

1. What happens if you have a PNM who says "screw that, im wearing letters" before initiation? Is she asked to leave the pledge class? Does she get to stay with a slap on the wrist? Is she socially looked down on? Or is it something on the books but not really enforced?

2. If new members are allowed to wear the crest, are they told what those things on the crest mean? If not, isnt that the same as wearing letters they dont know the meaning of?

See, and it doesnt make sense to me, based on my argument above. NMs dont know what the letters mean, so they cant wear them, but the letters spelled out? youre still representing the organization. The crest has things, or perhaps a phrase, that are secret as well, but they CAN wear them? doesnt add up.

right, id like some answer to this as well. I think it leaves too much grey area. You are either a member (initiated, dues paid, NME process complete) or you are not (expressed interest, attended rush, going to rush/COB/pledge class/NME activities on the WAY to being initiated).

its like being pregnant. you either are or arent. it would be like saying "well im 8 months pregnant, and since im so close to childbirth, i can call myself a mom. but you're only 6 weeks pregnant, so you cant call yourself a mother yet."

or like getting a job. youre not an employee until you go through all those interviews, the head honcho tells you "youre hired," you get your company ID and all that jazz and hit New Employee Orientation. Imagine the look on someone's face if they were passing out business cards for a company they were in the interview process with. Theyve got no rights to represent that company.


Or... is it more like upon graduation, that middle area when you walk across the stage, yet you havent gotten your diploma? You can tell everyone you're a Univ of Whatever alum but its not official until the university sees all the requirements have been met?

It is the AEPhi HQ policy. While most NPC orgs allow new members to wear letters but not the crest, we allow new members to wear (a version of) the crest, but not letters.

A PNM wouldn't be wearing any org's letters, as she hasn't pledged anywhere yet. ;) But a new member who is seen wearing letters would just be asked to stop doing so until after initiation.

As for the crest, there is some publicly available information, and the new members would have this information before receiving their pins. More than that, I cannot say.

I think its your organizations prerogative to withhold your letters from you NMs, aephi alum. Of course there are reasons to withhold all types of paraphernalia from NMs. The badge is for initiated members only, but sometimes these rules are a little confusing and random. In the end, I agree that chapters should make sure to follow the actual rules of HQ and not the made- up rules of the individual chapter. AOII only withholds the badge from NMs. They can wear the letters and the rose (though, as a NM, I was not allowed to have anything with a rose on it because we thought that was the rule. It was a chapter rule!) I think most of the alums on GC get a little upset when collegians from our chapters come on GC with some far-fetched explanation why our org does something that clearly we know is not true.

I know what you mean! I got so much grief from my "friends" from other chapters because I wore letters after Bid Day...because they weren't allowed at the time. I may not have known what they meant, but I also knew how to wear them - with pride and looking good....not all frumpy in sweats.

To each their own I guess.

I'm thinking some of this confusion exists because new member periods are so short now.:cool:
With a semester-long NM period, you REALLY grind that stuff into your memory.
Now, it's just a matter of weeks.

I think what happens is either 1) they are carrying over the tradition from when they were a local group or 2) there was a national sorority on campus who WASN'T allowed to wear letters, and that became the campus norm.

It's kind of like frilly rush - maybe there is a chapter who thinks the "no letters before initiation" thing is silly (and their HQ says it is too), but if there are other chapters on campus who do it - especially the "top" chapters - they're not going to buck the system. I mean if a chapter, or the pledge class, says that wearing letters before initiation will make them a subject of campus ridicule, I'm not about to say they HAVE to wear letters. That's like hazing in reverse.

And like I've said a lot of times, the more that pledgeship has become about presents and self-esteem and the less about learning and working, the more arbitrary rules have been placed on things like letters. At least that's my experience.

In AST, as a new member, you can wear letters and a new member pin. You are allowed to wear an initiated sister pin and the crest after initiation.

pledgees wearing letters
 

That would never happen with Zeta Phi Beta. There is no way anyone who is not a national member of the organization would get away with that.

That's right.

A member can get away with using sorority money to buy personal items but they can't get away with using letters.

Very true sister!

:)

We don't take too much issue with the letters thing. In all, it's really not such a big deal as people make it out to be. If Nationals says it's okay, then who are we to question that?

As a general rule, we always say that we have the right to make new rules on things not stated in the Constitution of AST...but we do NOT go against rules in the Constitution.

Sorry you had to wait so long for this response. I'm usually quite busy and don't have too much time to get on GreekChat. Well this is true that they do not know what phi mu means until after initiation. Just as you said earlier though letting them wear it shows that they, while not initiated where chosen to be a part of the orginization. Wearing the actual Greek letters however should be earned. I'm not talking about hazing. I'm talking about proving your devotion and love for the sorority. Anything good is worth waiting for. That's how I felt about waiting to wear letters. It's also so you don't take for granted what a privelage it is to wear them. I went through formal recruitment with a good friend who ended up joining delta zeta. They were allowed to wear letters through the pledging process. Wearing them was not at all special to her. I realize this is an isolated example but it's the impression I got from most girls who did not have to wait to wear letters.

Oh and our new member pin has only the phi on it, not the mu.

We don't let pledges wear letters, at least not in my chapter. The main reason is that they don't know what they represent, so they really appreciate them. We believe strongly in earning your letters through learning about the fraternity and everything it represents. And our pledge pin doesn't have any letters on it, so you can't tell a Psi U pledge just by the pin unless you know alot about greek life. Even most greeks in my school don't know what our pledge pin looks like.

I didn't see this earlier, but coming from an org that follows this policy, I'll take a stab at it.

The Greek letters spelled out -- Phi Mu Alpha -- are basically the name of the Fraternity; they identify the Fraternity and those people and things affiliated with it. But the Greek letters themselves -- F, M, A -- are much more than just the name of the Fraternity. (Shoot, for our first 50 years, they weren't even officially part of the Fraternity's name.) They are symbols of the ideals that we most cherish; and they identify those who have been fully initiated and who have committed themselves by solemn oath to cherish and promote what the letters mean. They are among the most meaningful symbols we have.

Until initiation, one is not a full brother. He may indicate his probationary affiliation with the Fraternity by wearing or having something with the name spelled out. But until he is initiated into full membership, he doesn't have the right to wear the letters themselves (or the coat-of-arms), because he has neither learned what they mean nor committed himself to what they represent.

Thank you that was more along the lines of what I needed to say. I'm sure most if not all GLO's greek letters have special meanings that you only know about after initiation and spelled out is simply the name of the organization.

Our New Member period was almost a full semester but I do know what you mean. We were the last chapter on my campus to be initiated. Most were only about a month long.