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[prophet]

How do you feel when you meet a brother/sister who had been initiated into your fraternity/sorority not by the typical pledging period? Ones who are known as "honorary" brother/sister. For me it comes down to why they are joining my fraternity as an honorary brother. I believe strongly that you can never understand the true meaning of Phi Tau unless you had gone through the undergraduate association. As an undergraduate you deal with the undergraduate problems of the fraternity and learn from that. I have no problems with honorary brothers infact I happen to be a part of a honorary member's initiation. I took part in it and was proud to call this man my brother; becuase of his work for the fraternity and his love of our organization. However, I still feel he will never be able to gain the knowledge and heart of a brother who initiated as an undergraduate. Do not think I am saying this because of soley the pledge period, but more as in the learning and gaining(in the heart) you get through the undergraduate Greek experience.
FKT
www.bspotonline.com/phitau

[Beryana]

I'm really sorry that you feel that way. I am an alumna initiate. I wanted to get back involved with greek life after having graduated but was living 600 miles from the school I did most of my undergraduate work (I was a member of a local while in college). Yes, I did miss out on being a part of this organization while in college - the chapter on our campus had closed in 1967 and I was an undergrad in the early 90s. However, I was my initiating chapter's chapter adviser as well as hold other advisory positions. I have also been involved in setting up my fraternity's archives among other things. I guess one thing that I have that some collegians have is a larger view of the fraternity. I have never been made to feel any different than an alumna who initiated while an undergrad. I have been involved in alumna chapters as well as in the process of starting another one here in Wisconsin - because there isn't one where I'm currently living and I miss the sisterhood.

I guess the experience of greek life is all about what you want to get out of it - do you want to really be involved with the collegians or just the alums? Do you want to be involved internationally or just locally? AOII has a past international president that is an alumna initiate - Joan is great and still EXTREMELY active in AOII. Alum initiates also have not experienced the burn-out that most collegians/new alums have and so are more likely to be more active over the long run than most new alums. . . .

I would also be really careful about how you act around your brothers that picked your fraternity out of the hundred or so that are available. He saw something special and even though you are proud to call him a brother you may inadvertently look down on him because you don't think he has the heart of a 'true' brother. . . . Don't alienate him/them at all

Sarah

to the best of my knowledge, Sigma Nu doesn't give honorary memberships, so i've never had to deal with this situation.

Kitso
KS 361

[phikappapsiman]

Question...Is there a difference between "honorary" and "alumni" memberships? I don't think that my fraternity has either, but I know that in some BGLO's, a person can be initiated into Alumni/Alumnae chapters, and there can also be honorary members. I don't personally feel that a non-undergraduate joining a GLO is "missing out"-of course there are things that they will never do that undergrads do, but if you truly believe that brotherhood/sisterhood is for life, then those 4 or 5 or 6+ years as an undergraduate (depending on who you are! )are only a SMALL part of your life...

[prophet]

for all you who think or do not know if your org. has an honorary membership, you need to ask. I bet you that your org. does have one, I know Sigma Nu does. As for Beryana, why are you sorry? I am glad you are doing your job as a sister. You seem to think that your work is some thing out of the ordinary. It is not! It is your duty to give back to your sorority, like it is mine to do all that I have done in a year and a half as a undergraduate brother, Fraternity.Sorority.Council rep., Rush Chair, Big Brother(2), E-Board member, A.Pledge father, also helping expand to two schools(San Jose. & Univeristy San Francisco), and the list goes on for what I have done for my fraternity. As for claiming that honorary members will be more likely to do more in the long run, they better! It is because of the college members and college alums that there are even chapters alive! You remember that. Let me ask you one more thing, why did you say that I don't think a honorary member will have the heart of a true brother? Hello, he is a true brother, but not a brother that has experienced the whole brotherhood aspect.

[prophet]

for all you who think or do not know if your org. has an honorary membership, you need to ask. I bet you that your org. does have one, I know Sigma Nu does. As for Beryana, why are you sorry? I am glad you are doing your job as a sister. You seem to think that your work is some thing out of the ordinary. It is not! It is your duty to give back to your sorority, like it is mine to do all that I have done in a year and a half as a undergraduate brother, Fraternity.Sorority.Council rep., Rush Chair, Big Brother(2), E-Board member, A.Pledge father, also helping expand to two schools(San Jose. & Univeristy San Francisco), and the list goes on for what I have done for my fraternity. As for claiming that honorary members will be more likely to do more in the long run, they better! It is because of the college members and college alums that there are even chapters alive! You remember that. Let me ask you one more thing, why did you say that I don't think a honorary member will have the heart of a true brother? Hello, he is a true brother, but not a brother that has experienced the whole brotherhood aspect.
FKT
www.bspotonline.com/phitau

Prophet,

I'm sorry, but i'm going to have to defer to my pledgeship classes and, well the fact that I am a Sigma Nu, and state that i know for a fact that Sigma Nu doesn't allow dual or honorary memberships.

I don't know if someone you know was given an honorary membership by a chapter or something, but that is not in accordance with Sigma Nu rules.

Kitso
KS 361

[Please respect the fact that i can tell you this as a fact, but out of respect for my fraternity, i cannot post where it says it]

[enlightenment06]

Hello everyone. This is only my first or second post to greek chat. I must say that I didn't know that non-BGLO's had this sort of issue also. I think that anyone who doesn't go through the undergraduate process is missing out. Yes, the committment and bonds are for life, but I was always under the impression that fraternities are primarily about college students and college life. To me it's almost like reading the Cliff Notes instead of the whole book- sure the end goal is reached, but you miss out on the core of greek life. Thanks ya'll.

[Beryana]

Originally posted by prophet
As for Beryana, why are you sorry? I am glad you are doing your job as a sister. You seem to think that your work is some thing out of the ordinary. It is not! It is your duty to give back to your sorority, like it is mine to do all that I have done in a year and a half as a undergraduate brother, Fraternity.Sorority.Council rep., Rush Chair, Big Brother(2), E-Board member, A.Pledge father, also helping expand to two schools(San Jose. & Univeristy San Francisco), and the list goes on for what I have done for my fraternity. As for claiming that honorary members will be more likely to do more in the long run, they better! It is because of the college members and college alums that there are even chapters alive! You remember that. Let me ask you one more thing, why did you say that I don't think a honorary member will have the heart of a true brother? Hello, he is a true brother, but not a brother that has experienced the whole brotherhood aspect.

I'm sorry that you feel the way you do because you are actually alienating those that join your fraternity beyond college. They joined you because they felt there is something special about your organization - they saw something beyond what typical college students see. They saw the philanthropy and such which usually is not that high on college students' lists! Alumni members do not HAVE to help out with collegiate chapters. Actually its the alumni members that keep the fraternities and sororities alive in the grander scheme of things - they support the collegians. I never said that what I've done for AOII is something special (except to me!). I wanted to help out at the collegiate level as well as being involved with the alumnae chapter - and so I did. I was the Chapter Relations, Membership Education, New Member Education, PR, Alumnae, Philanthropy, Panhellenic, and Chapter Adviser - and driving 1.5 hours one way to get to the chapter because I wanted to be involved - as well as giving up a weeks time to go down and work to set up the fraternity's archives. I can promise you that being an adviser is not easy and many of my grey hairs are because of it - but I wouldn't have not done it for the world! There are many alumnae that were initiated in college that won't do half as much! I was also really active in my local sorority as Historian, Alumnae chair, Winter Carnival coordinator, New Member Educator, Treasurer, Panhel rep, and Vice President of Membership - all while taking 18 credits, working a full-time job AND studying abroad a semester. For me I experienced the 'whole aspect' of sisterhood but with a different organization so don't be so quick to judge people with the (what I see as) twisted view of what it means to be a brother or sister. So, we don't have as many event t-shirts but that does not mean that when we took our oaths to our respective organizations that we are any different and get anything less out of the experience. I actually think that we get more out of it than collegians due to the fact that we are there for different reasons. . .

[prophet]

Beryana your hella twisted! Let me ask you this.....if your so loyal, why aren't you doing all that your doing for aopi for your local sorority you were in during your college years? As far as all the other things, "....alienating those that join your fraternity beyond college." I won't even go there. HAHAHA your funny! Last but not least, it is your job to help out the college chapters! As a sister that did not go through the college experience with your sorority I am not surprised you said, "Alumni members do not HAVE to help out with with collegiate chapters." I also take not you are not helping your original sorority. Good Bye.

[Beryana]

Originally posted by prophet
Beryana your hella twisted! Let me ask you this.....if your so loyal, why aren't you doing all that your doing for aopi for your local sorority you were in during your college years? As far as all the other things, "....alienating those that join your fraternity beyond college." I won't even go there. HAHAHA your funny! Last but not least, it is your job to help out the college chapters! As a sister that did not go through the college experience with your sorority I am not surprised you said, "Alumni members do not HAVE to help out with with collegiate chapters." I also take not you are not helping your original sorority. Good Bye.

Did you actually read where I said that I lived 600+ miles from my local? And as a member of the first pledge class there really was not many alumnae out there to get together with. As for directly helping out, I did send a check when I could afford it. . .but that is not really helping out, is it (the local sorority I initiated into no longer exists because they voted to go NPC - I'm also not going into other details with you)?! With regards to alumni having to help out collegiate chapters - they don't. Its HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that they do when they can, but not all can. Right now the closest chapter for me is 3.5 hours away! Does that not make me less of a sister in your eyes? I will help out with Rush if I can, but probably not because I have recruitment for my job that needs to be done first. I really do feel sorry for you that if you go through life with the attitude that you are showing here.

Sarah

[Pi Kapp 142]

Pi Kappa Phi has alumni intitiation, which is when a man who was not part of a men's general Fraternity in his undergraduate years, but did graduate from college, goes through the Ritual of Initiation. These people are some of the most treasured resources we have as a fraternity. Yes, they never had the experince and benefit of the undergraduate experience. But, despite that, they saw something wonderful and important in Pi Kappa Phi and wanted to give to this great organization. Some of our National leaders have been alumni initiates. I just got back from our Supreme Chapter and a lot of the volunteers who were donating alot of time and money to the Fraternity were alumni initiates. A lot of times we try to get fathers and older brothers to take advantage of this and we are currently working on finding an adcedemic advisor within the faculty who can become a brother. Please, do yourselves a favor and try to find someone who wants to join your org. who has already graduated from college.

[Eupolis]

Whoooeee, can we chill on the personal attacks, both ways? Thanks.

prophet - If a graduate is willing to make a commitment to an organization as serious as the commitment a student makes, I don't have a fundamental problem with that person affiliating with the fraternity.

However, I would personally prefer that the would-be member be actively involved in the life of a particular chapter. We're a national organization, but I think it is the day to day chapter life that gives us the relationships that make the fraternity so important to us. The national organization gives us structure, ways to learn together how to make our chapters stronger, and shared goals and ideals. The chapters are a unique way of bringing those ideas to life, and I agree with you to the extent that I think that it is important for someone who would join our fraternity because of a love for our cardinal principles (or, before initiation, what they take our ideals to be) also to spend a few years bringing them to life through some sort of constant participation in daily life in the chapter. I can't commit to saying that undergraduate membership is the only way, though I am sure it is the best way.

Mu chapter, my own, is chartered at a small private college of about 1300 students, and has active student membership consistently in the range of 20-30 members. Its constitution and bylaws, consistent with the Constitution and Statutes of Phi Kappa Tau, permit the initiation of non-students, but only if the individual is a member of the faculty or staff of the college. It is an implied requirement that the person be actively involved in chapter development. I don't think it's been done since the mid-1960s, when they initiated a professor who was involved with the house and offered to serve as a faculty advisor. There were no Phi Tau alumni on the faculty at the time. (There is one now, and he's going to retire soon.)

I'm drafting papers in preparation to propose a Graduate Council for Mu Chapter. There is presently no provision for alumni initiation in my draft constitution and by-laws. I thought about it for a while. I don't think I can justify it for the kind of organization it's going to be if it's approved - an organization of mostly far-flung alumni trying to help the house through some changes in campus life (again, it's designed to be directly tied to the chapter). I think it's a lot easier to justify initiation of someone who isn't a college student if that person is actually and closely involved in chapter life, including physical presence. Then, it would make sense to have that person in a graduate council member's role. But like I said, this hasn't come up in my chapter for decades, and I don't expect it to soon.

Maybe I'll feel differently when I'm older and come across someone who I feel would make a wonderful Phi Tau if only he had had the opportunity. I'm only 25. But I still don't think I would feel comfortable presenting a non-student for initation unless he were committing to contribute to the college life in a particular chapter on a close personal basis, and were already doing so at the time of initiation. The commitment to college and chapter is right in our creed, only one sentence after the commitment to our ideals. Perhaps that also colors how I see this question, and members of other organizations (and our own) might reasonably disagree.

I'm curious to know what prompted your concern on this issue. Feel free to PM me.

________________
Mu Chapter of Phi Kappa Tau
Lawrence University (Appleton, WI)
init. '96, LU '99.

[DeltaSigStan]

We've only had one honorary member, and this was in the 1950s, so I don't know if it's that big a deal with DSP anyway.

[Optimist Prime]

We have some honorary members. My thoughts on that is, our founders didn't pledge. Up untill after WWII nobody did. General Sherman was an honorary Theta Chi. He initated after meeting some of the brothers that served under him I guess. Also there was a Phi Psi who was initated after his death because he helped our founders.