Pitt asks NPHC groups to expand

[PsychTau]

OK, I'm looking for some info here, cause I don't really understand. I know NPC/NIC is different from NPHC, but I'm wanting to learn a little more background on this. NPHC members, please!

1. What is inherently wrong with having 10 members in a chapter? (Forget about the "less than 10 and your not recognized" rule for a minute. And forget about the percentage of potential members on campus. In fact, don't even think about a campus when answering this.) Simply from a chapter/operational/National standpoint, is there a problem with having more than 10 members in a chapter? I'm not talking about having 70 or 80 members....but what about 10-15?

2. What does your HQ say about chapter size? Do they want you to be at a certain size? Or is that not even discussed between HQ and chapters?

3. Is that really true that you pay all those dues up front? Whoa!! I can see how that would be a deterrent in recruiting members. Any way to change that or spread that payment out some? How do first generation college students actually afford that?

4. I might be treading on thin ice here, but answer with what you can reveal.....Do you "actively recruit" members, or wait for them to approach you? I'm not talking about hanging posters everywhere and having a big COB party....but what if I were an AKA and I had a good friend that I had met through several classes together. We know each other pretty well and I know she would make a great AKA (live up to the standards, be active, etc.). Could I mention that to her ("Have you ever thought about joining a sorority?") or even invite her to one of the info sessions? Or do I have to wait for her to express an interest on her own?

I'm asking all of these questions because I have an opinion on this article, but it's not a solid one, and I would like more background info before really deciding about it. Coming from my NPC background (and a chapter that was down to less than 10 members in my lifetime), my first gut reaction was "Why would anyone want to have less than 10 members???" But then I read 33girl's post and figured that maybe I need more info before jumping to that conclusion.

Anyway, thanks in advance for educating me!!!
PsychTau

[Intense1920]

Also to add, without campus recognition there is no intake at that school on the undergrad level.

[kddani]

I'm not totally sure, the article is unclear, on whether or not NPHC would lose recognition. But if you take away the individual chapters, say there's only 1 or 2 with over 10 members that keep their recognition, then is there really a point of a governing body? At least a point in the administration's eyes to continue to fund?

Allocations of the activity fees are always a big contraversy on campus, and even though the article doesn't talk about it, I really think that this may be at least a small part of the reason. I'm not sure how much NPHC gets, but they get more than the usual student group.

Hopefully SigEp42 can join in on this discussion, he has a much great knowledge of the allocations process, etc. and the current state of the greek system at Pitt.

* Paging Jesse *

[CrimsonTide4]

There is NOTHING wrong with having more than 10 members in a chapter. It would be great if that happened but when you factor in:


McCoyred stated
Not every Black student in the small population at a PWI is even interested in Greek Life, some of those choose NPC/IFC orgs, others don't have the grades or time to committ and yet others don't have the $ to pledge. After you get through all of these filters, then you need to select those who apply and from among those applicants, who is a good fit. It is definitely a process that needs to be communicated to this Pitt administration so they can get buy a clue!

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Intense1920
Also to add, without campus recognition there is no intake at that school on the undergrad level.

Is that and NPHC policy?

[PsychTau]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
To force NPHC groups to increase members (at least on this campus) would be asking them to eitehr violate their membership procedures or to change them.

Question: Would it force them to violate their membership procedures? What about the chapters at different schools that actually do have more than 10 members? Are they violating their own membership procedures?

I guess my point on this is that the actual membership procedures wouldn't necessarily have to change in order to have more than 10 members. What would have to change would be attracting enough interested members who meet the membership requirements (GPA, $$, etc) so that you could intake them and wind up with 10 or more members. Granted, it might be tough for the chapter with 2 members to intake 5 in one semester, but for the group that has maybe 6 or 8 members, would it be too hard for them to exceed the 10 member threshold?

I know some people on this thread have mentioned the percentage of potential members available on a campus to pick from (i.e. the number of black students on a campus). If the NPHC groups held more members, would that potentially attract more black students to that campus? (That's just a curiosity question there....)

PsychTau

[Intense1920]

Originally posted by PsychTau
1. What is inherently wrong with having 10 members in a chapter? (Forget about the "less than 10 and your not recognized" rule for a minute. And forget about the percentage of potential members on campus. In fact, don't even think about a campus when answering this.) Simply from a chapter/operational/National standpoint, is there a problem with having more than 10 members in a chapter? I'm not talking about having 70 or 80 members....but what about 10-15?
There is nothing wrong with having more than 10 members in a chapter. It is just that at PWIs it is difficult for individual NPHC orgs to get that many.

2. What does your HQ say about chapter size? Do they want you to be at a certain size? Or is that not even discussed between HQ and chapters?
Each org has their own requirements for the minimum size.

3. Is that really true that you pay all those dues up front? Whoa!! I can see how that would be a deterrent in recruiting members. Any way to change that or spread that payment out some? How do first generation college students actually afford that?
Depends on the org. On the average we at least pay for the whole year up front, plus other fees.

4. I might be treading on thin ice here, but answer with what you can reveal.....Do you "actively recruit" members, or wait for them to approach you? I'm not talking about hanging posters everywhere and having a big COB party....but what if I were an AKA and I had a good friend that I had met through several classes together. We know each other pretty well and I know she would make a great AKA (live up to the standards, be active, etc.). Could I mention that to her ("Have you ever thought about joining a sorority?") or even invite her to one of the info sessions? Or do I have to wait for her to express an interest on her own?
If I had a good friend who I would like to see become a part of my organization, I would invite her to a few events. But it would ultimately be up to her to formally state her interest in my organization.

[Rudey]

I don't think any greek organization should be getting money from the campus. It works out better for everyone.

-Rudey

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by PsychTau
Question: Would it force them to violate their membership procedures? What about the chapters at different schools that actually do have more than 10 members? Are they violating their own membership procedures?

Maybe that's a little extreme. But from my understanding is that the problem (at elast on Pitt's campus) is that there aren't enough people who express and interest in the NPHC orgs.
If the school is forcing them to increase their membership it may mean that in order to have more members they would have to take people that do not meet their standards.

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't think any greek organization should be getting money from the campus. It works out better for everyone.

-Rudey

then what would be the point of paying student activity fees. the money (at least on my old campus) that was giving to orgs. is money collected from student fees. and that is why there is a meticulous process of granting orgs. special funding for events and conventions/conferences.

and to whomever asked, no there is no problem in having a chapter larger than 10 but when i was in the undergrad chapter, we would much rather have a small chapter with everyone working than a large chapter with a small number of workers.

what this all boils down to is that the school officials at pitt have no real understanding of membership and membership selection when it comes to bglos.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet


then what would be the point of paying student activity fees. the money (at least on my old campus) that was giving to orgs. is money collected from student fees. and that is why there is a meticulous process of granting orgs. special funding for events and conventions/conferences.

and to whomever asked, no there is no problem in having a chapter larger than 10 but when i was in the undergrad chapter, we would much rather have a small chapter with everyone working than a large chapter with a small number of workers.

what this all boils down to is that the school officials at pitt have no real understanding of membership and membership selection when it comes to bglos.

Those fees should go to other activities other than Greek life in my opinion.

-Rudey

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet

...then what would be the point of paying student activity fees...

If the schools didn't fund student organizations, then students themselves would have to pay upfront money to join campus organizations, which potentially means they could be very costly.
I think what Rudy means is that if you want o participate ine xtracurricular activites then you do so on your own dime.

...what this all boils down to is that the school officials at pitt have no real understanding of membership and membership selection when it comes to bglos.

I definitly agree with you here. I myself have no understanding about NPHC membership selection. But is there any way these groups could educate school officials about membership selection, of course without revealing what non-members are not supposed to know?

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by PsychTau
OK, I'm looking for some info here, cause I don't really understand. I know NPC/NIC is different from NPHC, but I'm wanting to learn a little more background on this. NPHC members, please!

1. What is inherently wrong with having 10 members in a chapter? (Forget about the "less than 10 and your not recognized" rule for a minute. And forget about the percentage of potential members on campus. In fact, don't even think about a campus when answering this.) Simply from a chapter/operational/National standpoint, is there a problem with having more than 10 members in a chapter? I'm not talking about having 70 or 80 members....but what about 10-15?

2. What does your HQ say about chapter size? Do they want you to be at a certain size? Or is that not even discussed between HQ and chapters?

3. Is that really true that you pay all those dues up front? Whoa!! I can see how that would be a deterrent in recruiting members. Any way to change that or spread that payment out some? How do first generation college students actually afford that?

4. I might be treading on thin ice here, but answer with what you can reveal.....Do you "actively recruit" members, or wait for them to approach you? I'm not talking about hanging posters everywhere and having a big COB party....but what if I were an AKA and I had a good friend that I had met through several classes together. We know each other pretty well and I know she would make a great AKA (live up to the standards, be active, etc.). Could I mention that to her ("Have you ever thought about joining a sorority?") or even invite her to one of the info sessions? Or do I have to wait for her to express an interest on her own?

I'm asking all of these questions because I have an opinion on this article, but it's not a solid one, and I would like more background info before really deciding about it. Coming from my NPC background (and a chapter that was down to less than 10 members in my lifetime), my first gut reaction was "Why would anyone want to have less than 10 members???" But then I read 33girl's post and figured that maybe I need more info before jumping to that conclusion.

Anyway, thanks in advance for educating me!!!
PsychTau

1. Nothing really wrong with having 10 to 15 members but realistically on some campuses that isn't possible. While the sororities were large on my HBCU campus, even on my campus the NPHC fraternities never hit 15 members. It's not a matter of trying to keep numbers low but a matter of interest on the part of non-Greeks, selection and competition from other groups.

2. Only HQ decides what the minimum number of people that can be in a chapter and even with that, in certain orgs, they can have time to try to reach that number before a chapter is deactivated.

3. Yes, we pay up front, and for Delta now you are paying up front for two years. Anyone interesting in BGLO life tends to know the financial burden will be great and either work to get the funds, use extra money they have from school or parents help finance that. First generation students don't really get a break there, we seem to know going in what's expected there. And there's NO way to space that out.

4. As someone say we can encourage people to come to RUSH but we do not recruit. The NPHC process is more of an attend events, get to know members, attend formal RUSH and apply for the chance to become a member. There isn't a lot of chances post the RUSH party to interact with members of NPHC sororities if you are applying.

And we wouldn't take anyone that doesn't meet at least BASIC requirements. We can't be forced to just to make a 10 person quota.

[msn4med1975]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
If the schools didn't fund student organizations, then students themselves would have to pay upfront money to join campus organizations, which potentially means they could be very costly.
I think what Rudy means is that if you want o participate ine xtracurricular activites then you do so on your own dime.



I definitly agree with you here. I myself have no understanding about NPHC membership selection. But is there any way these groups could educate school officials about membership selection, of course without revealing what non-members are not supposed to know?

The process is not private information. People submit applications and if they meet basic reqs they will be invited to the next stage of the process but it's up to the chapters, in most cases, to decide which of the candidate pool will be invited to membership.

[MeezDiscreet]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
If the schools didn't fund student organizations, then students themselves would have to pay upfront money to join campus organizations, which potentially means they could be very costly.
I think what Rudy means is that if you want o participate ine xtracurricular activites then you do so on your own dime.

oh, we do!! and the upfront money to join is VERY costly!! the university doesn't assist with intake fees at all!!! but consider the fees of the student that has only enough time to go to class and work for their sorority. what happens to their fees when their chapter president needs to go to a national convention or face chapter suspension or fines and the chapter can't afford to send them? this is just a VERY realistic example i'm using to convey my point.

I definitly agree with you here. I myself have no understanding about NPHC membership selection. But is there any way these groups could educate school officials about membership selection, of course without revealing what non-members are not supposed to know?

well of course, and i'm sure that the black greeks at pitt are waiting for the opportunity to tell the school officials!! i wonder if they were even asked...

and i just want to add that our membership selection process isn't 100% secretive. our national website even address membership intake and selection.