"You'll end up where you were meant to"...

[ZetaLuvBunny]

I hadn't even considered the effect that phrase might have on people, but now that I think about it, it's so true! Sometimes it sets girls up with too high of expectations and they end-up being dissapointed. Yes, especially here in the South where your average state university might have anywhere from 200 to 400 rushees each fall.

A good example might be my roommate. She's a total sweetheart, and we had a whole conversation a few nights ago about our different sororities, comparing the sisterhood. I had been saying something about an activity with my sisters, and out of the blue she asked, "Do you really like your sorority? I mean, are you all really close?" She said several of her sisters are so uptight and serious about everything that it's not fun for her anymore sometimes. The few girls I do know in that sorority are really friendly, but I do have to agree that they seem very serious, and they seem to not do much "fun stuff".

It's true that we all need some seriousness in order to maintain our dignity, but it is, however, a *social* sorority. Apparently her and her sisters really never hang out. In my case, although it's not as if I hang out with them 24/7, but we really do have good, close, sisterhood in our chapter.
A few examples: After pretty much every meeting, someone will spontaneously say "hey, let's go to Chili's or O'Charlie's", and usually anywhere from ten to thirty of us will show up, and hang out there for a couple hours. One of our new officers, after noticing that some people were eating lunch alone, came up with the brilliant idea of having particular days in which we all meet up for lunch (of course, it's not required, but certainly a good idea) and hang out together. Then two other girls piped-up to say that on Tuesdays and Thursdays they bring lunches to the chapter room and watch TV in there together.

We also have the occasional "movie night" where we watch a video in the chapter room in our pajamas, and bring snacks to share. Admittedly, my Big and I don't hang out all that often, but she works a lot and that's the main reason. Nonetheless, she's always there for me if I really need something. One time when I was frustrated with the stuff piling up in my dorm room, I called my Big and she drove me to a Target on a spur-of-the-moment-buy-some-storage-shelves trip before meeting. She's always there to lend an ear if I have something to vent about, too.

I know not everyone's so lucky as far as sisterhood goes, but you know what? The majority of people at Greek Chat to me represent the "creme de la creme" of Greeks in this world, because of their honest advice and willingness to help others. If anyone's going to do something about improving the Greek system, it's GCers. Carnation & PnguinTrax here are two great examples. I would definitely be lost if I hadn't found GC.

[justamom]

Carnation, you and I have had so many exchanges (and I'm certain there will be many more) on this subject. You really did hit the nail on the head regarding this situation.

This is slightly off topic-One bright point is, if you want to call it that, those girls that are rushing and get cut from the one or two sororities they have focused on will often drop out. At least that's what happened to several I know. This opens up the "spaces" for other girls. In a way, it weeds out those who look upon membership purely as a status symbol rather than a sisterhood within the Greek system. Who knows, it might make the system as a whole stronger.

Back to topic-it's hard to see these young ladies face disappoint-ment, It's even harder in some cases to know what to say when
you can feel their hurt in their posts. If we could do anything to help them understand that it is NO REFLECTION of their worth, it's really a lot of variables and a touch of luck. I'm glad you posted this. I think we all will choose our words more caefully in the future.
JAM

[Ggirl617]

lol i haven't been upset over it for a long time. neither of you were harsh, you just thought i was complaining when i was simply offering my interpretation of her analogy. i didn't say anything in this thread that suggested i wanted sympathy. i really don't see what's incorrect about what i said about the sweatshirt example though

[Primrose]

Are there any websites/books/other publications that are periodically revised to reflect the competitiveness of recruitment at the various campuses across the country?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Primrose

Are there any websites/books/other publications that are periodically revised to reflect the competitiveness of recruitment at the various campuses across the country?

What?

(p.s. Can someone please find that Family Guy clip of Lois laughing and saying "What?" I think it's after Peter tells her about his prostate exam.)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What?

(p.s. Can someone please find that Family Guy clip of Lois laughing and saying "What?" I think it's after Peter tells her about his prostate exam.)

Sorry, this is the closest to the hilarity that I could find: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCfjr...eature=related

Family Guy is the funniest show on TV. Prostate down.

[Primrose]

I’m thinking of a book or database or something that uses the statistics of Formal Recruitment to assess at which schools recruitment is competitive.

It would present the # of girls per university who were offered a bid, and perhaps put the school in a category as a result of that. (“At the X University fall formal recruitment, 90% of rushees were offered a bid, so X University is rated ‘less competitive’ in terms of rush.”)

The book could be updated every year or so to reflect last year’s recruitment – the newest one. Girls who are doing college searches could use this information in picking a school if Greek life is really important to them.

Finally, a book like this could track recruitment result at schools (“X University has had a reputation as a less competitive school, but recruitment has been getting increasingly more competitive. In the last five years, 50% of rushees were offered a bid.”).

That way, a girl who is worried about her social skills, and for whom Greek life is a #1 priority, could choose her university partially based on the competitiveness level of recruitment at the school.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Primrose

I’m thinking of a book or database or something that uses the statistics of Formal Recruitment to assess at which schools recruitment is competitive.

It would present the # of girls per university who were offered a bid, and perhaps put the school in a category as a result of that. (“At the X University fall formal recruitment, 90% of rushees were offered a bid, so X University is rated ‘less competitive’ in terms of rush.”)

The book could be updated every year or so to reflect last year’s recruitment – the newest one. Girls who are doing college searches could use this information in picking a school if Greek life is really important to them.

Finally, a book like this could track recruitment result at schools (“X University has had a reputation as a less competitive school, but recruitment has been getting increasingly more competitive. In the last five years, 50% of rushees were offered a bid.”).

That way, a girl who is worried about her social skills, and for whom Greek life is a #1 priority, could choose her university partially based on the competitiveness level of recruitment at the school.

There are no such statistics. The only way you really know how competitive a school is to know girls who have gone through rush there.

We have alot of threads about the competitiveness of different schools here, but no stats.

Also, competitiveness is subjective. One person may find a school competitive, while someone else may not. Number of girls who get bids doesn't always measure competitiveness.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by Primrose

I’m thinking of a book or database or something that uses the statistics of Formal Recruitment to assess at which schools recruitment is competitive.

It would present the # of girls per university who were offered a bid, and perhaps put the school in a category as a result of that. (“At the X University fall formal recruitment, 90% of rushees were offered a bid, so X University is rated ‘less competitive’ in terms of rush.”)

The book could be updated every year or so to reflect last year’s recruitment – the newest one. Girls who are doing college searches could use this information in picking a school if Greek life is really important to them.

Finally, a book like this could track recruitment result at schools (“X University has had a reputation as a less competitive school, but recruitment has been getting increasingly more competitive. In the last five years, 50% of rushees were offered a bid.”).

That way, a girl who is worried about her social skills, and for whom Greek life is a #1 priority, could choose her university partially based on the competitiveness level of recruitment at the school.

Sorry, but ugh

(1) You are just opening the doors for girls to start out at a school with a super-easy recruitment, and then transfer to the uber-competitive as a member of the top chapter. Gross.

(2) Women should pick their colleges on, oh-I-don't-know, academics. Yes, there are other things that are important, such as class sizes, faculty backgrounds, environment, location, etc. But most of those factor in to getting a degree. As much as I love, love, love my sorority, I would never have chosen Wisconsin simply because this chapter is here.

(3) Generally, it seems that the more competitive the recruitment, the stronger the greek life. So, maybe a girl would pick to go to a more competitive school rather than an easier. And it's not hard to figure out those schools already.

(4) Those stats have no way to compensate for women who drop out because they get "lower-tier" chapters.

P.S. PLEASE tell me you aren't considering schools based on the ease of recruitment. Because guess what--you can still get dropped from recruitment at a quote-on-quote easy school. Then, you're stuck at a school you picked on the basis of recruitment stats. At least if you get dropped from recruitment at a school you picked because it fits you, you have other things to be happy with.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Primrose

I’m thinking of a book or database or something that uses the statistics of Formal Recruitment to assess at which schools recruitment is competitive.

It would present the # of girls per university who were offered a bid, and perhaps put the school in a category as a result of that. (“At the X University fall formal recruitment, 90% of rushees were offered a bid, so X University is rated ‘less competitive’ in terms of rush.”)

The book could be updated every year or so to reflect last year’s recruitment – the newest one. Girls who are doing college searches could use this information in picking a school if Greek life is really important to them.

Finally, a book like this could track recruitment result at schools (“X University has had a reputation as a less competitive school, but recruitment has been getting increasingly more competitive. In the last five years, 50% of rushees were offered a bid.”).

That way, a girl who is worried about her social skills, and for whom Greek life is a #1 priority, could choose her university partially based on the competitiveness level of recruitment at the school.

A. Lay off the font.

B. Percentage of PNMs that are extended a bid does not necessarily reflect a competitive recruitment.

C. Go do your own freaking research!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Primrose

I’m thinking of a book or database or something that uses the statistics of Formal Recruitment to assess at which schools recruitment is competitive.

It would present the # of girls per university who were offered a bid, and perhaps put the school in a category as a result of that. (“At the X University fall formal recruitment, 90% of rushees were offered a bid, so X University is rated ‘less competitive’ in terms of rush.”)

The book could be updated every year or so to reflect last year’s recruitment – the newest one. Girls who are doing college searches could use this information in picking a school if Greek life is really important to them.

Finally, a book like this could track recruitment result at schools (“X University has had a reputation as a less competitive school, but recruitment has been getting increasingly more competitive. In the last five years, 50% of rushees were offered a bid.”).

That way, a girl who is worried about her social skills, and for whom Greek life is a #1 priority, could choose her university partially based on the competitiveness level of recruitment at the school.

They can't manage to update Baird's which is actually something useful to the entire Greek community. I can't imagine why someone would make a book like this.

And guess what, just because it's a "less competitive" school doesn't mean everyone gets in. Not to mention, if girls do actually do what you're suggesting, doesn't mean it will be the "Greek life" that they pictured or that they want.

[greeklawgirl]

This is an issue that never even occurred to me. Thanks for making me think about something from an entirely new perspective!

[tridelta4ever]

Carnation, thanks for bringing this up. I have some strong opinions on this topic, like most of us here.

I have been one of the people who has said "you'll end up where you were meant to" when talking to rushees who are worried about whether they are making the right choice. It's meaningful to me because I truly believe that fate has a way of making things happen for an important reason. My friend Kristin is a good example. She rushed with me and did not receive a bid, although she had a great rush experience. At the time, I couldn't believe it and she was of course very hurt. However, she ended up rushing the next year and ending up in a sorority that she hadn't even entertained the idea of joining the year before. Now she is in the right place and feels the same way I do about her sorority.
~Now, take Corina from UCSC (wishin hopin) - she had a very upsetting rush experience and was, in my opinion, dirty rushed in a way. Now she is on the cusp of something completely new and exciting. Something that would not have existed had she not had that horrible experience with the sorority that did not offer her a bid. Now she has enabled many other women to benefit from sisterhood who would not have ever meshed with the only other NPC sorority on her campus. I think that's amazing. Also, I believe that I ended up where I was meant to. From day 1 of rush, I felt a bond with the women of Tri-Delta more than any of the other great sororities I spent time with. I went into the whole process with an open mind, not even really expecting that I'd get a bid, but when the time came, it was such an emotional experience for me on bid-day because I truly felt that I had found my "home" and my destiny. I still get emotional just thinking about it, and what a special time that was.

Additionally, let me just be honest and say that I do not think that the Greek System is for everyone. To be blunt, if you rush and the sorority you want to be in doesn't have members who click with you enough to offer a bid, why on earth would you want to be there anyway? I would much rather not be in the Greek System at all, than be with people who weren't sure about me. Also, I have friends who I don't think would have enjoyed rush, much less the responsibilities that go along with being in a sorority or fraternity. I'm not in any way implying that I think all Greeks are elite and better than others, just that I absolutely think that not everyone is meant to be Greek.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

By the way, Cutiepie, I loved your post....it really spoke to me.

*Carrie*

[James]

Originally posted by justamom

This is slightly off topic-One bright point is, if you want to call it that, those girls that are rushing and get cut from the one or two sororities they have focused on will often drop out. At least that's what happened to several I know. This opens up the "spaces" for other girls. In a way, it weeds out those who look upon membership purely as a status symbol rather than a sisterhood within the Greek system. Who knows, it might make the system as a whole stronger.

JAM

Yes, but isn't that the problem we are discussing? These girls focused on sororities that fit their image of themselves or who they want to be, and faced with going somewhere they perceived to be an environment they either wouldn't or woudn't want to fit in, they quit.

I'm a a bit of a jocky guys guy, pretty agressive with decent social skills, I wouldn't want to be forced to join the proverbial audiovisual fraternity with the pocket protectors. Guys that think girls that are 4's on a scale of 1-10 are hot.

Also, Erika's quote, resurected by Zetaluvbunny, is true. It maters a great deal who you hang with. How many of you met your SO's from your social groupings? So the quality of the people and your access to certain things can be greatly dtermined by which group you belong to.

You always see certain Fraternities with the hottest girls, and some always with the appearance handicapped ones. Which is the one you would rather hang with?

And it may not be PC, but for the record that is very important.
IT sounds like panhel has created a pretty flawed system and created inequities in the name of conformity and protection of the weaker.





Also, the quote by

[carnation]

I think a lot of the problems with the big Southern schools lie with numbers. With hundreds and hundreds of rushees, it's entirely possible and probable that well over a hundred girls will be overlooked due to sheer numbers.

As I mentioned, a girl from a small town or one where a certain sorority has no current members might be a perfect fit for ABC. All her friends know it and she does too--but the members have 6 days in which to choose girls they haven't met or been allowed to contact over the summer and they're probably going to go after the ones they know or know of, as well as the legacies or those whom the prominent alums push. How many times have I heard members of a "prominent" sorority say about a girl, "I wish I'd known her when she came through rush! I'd put my pin on her!" But they didn't then and the girl was cut.

Many, many girls don't get cut because the members didn't want them. They get cut simply because the sorority didn't know them beforehand and had no way to and the rules say they must cut a certain number each day (which of course, is necessary).

Lately I've had the chance to get acquainted again with several women I knew in college. Several were in what you'd call medium-tier or bottom-tier sororities, I guess. At the time, I never knew that they resented it. Now they discuss it heatedly, how they rushed with high expectations that came crashing down to earth fairly early in rush. How they knew if they got a bid from anyone other than the "Big 6" (Auburn) or the "Big 4" (Arkansas), they could kiss things like Mortar Board or Angel Flight or Miss Homecoming goodbye. How they accepted bids anyway but always desperately envied those who were chosen by the biggies. They don't regret their Greek experiences and made some friends and got nominally involved on campus but they'll always wonder what could've been.

So far, the Greek Chat women who are involved with the big schools are the majority of those who are saying, "Amen!" All this is hard to picture if you went to a school where the sororities rush the PNM. It's a pretty safe bet to say that at SEC schools, the PNM has to impress the sorority.