Cutting Legacies

[sorority belle]

Hi guys I have a question for you. It's actually very specific, but I think applies to a principle in general.

I know a freshman who was cut from a sorority where she was a double legacy (Mother, Grandmother & Aunt all were this--all maternal btw) and had 5 recs written for her (mother's and aunt's sorority sisters and alumni groups were DETERMINED for this girl to get into this sorority). Worse yet, the girl's mother was a member of the same CHAPTER (went to the same college) that cut her!

The school this girl rushed at did rush through 4 rounds--Intro night, Philanthropy, Song & Skit, & Pref Night. The girl kept "preffing" her mother/grandmother/aunt's sorority first [because she REALLY liked it, she said!] and was invited back to rounds 1, 2, and 3. She did not get an invite to Pref Night.

I know that we try not to cut legacies if possible, but that if we invite a legacy back to pref night, we have to offer them a bid. Obviously the girl wasn't invited back to Pref Night and didn't get a bid from them.

However what was so disheartening about the whole story is that the girl told her mother that she felt like she had been treated unfairly at that sorority in the first place. She really liked the girls she knew there and had a lot of friends that ended up going there, however she ended up only being able to go to about 5 minutes of round 2 (it lasted 35 minutes) because she had class until late in the day and rush started earlier. Apparently the Panhel at her school "arranged" her schedule (along with others in her predicament) but she still felt like her mother's sorority members "didn't want her there" even though she liked them.

I guess this story just pi$$es me off because it is a classic example of turning an entire family against the Greek system. The girl's mother, who was a big contributer to her sorority's nationals, has since almost entirely quit donating. Same thing for the girl's aunt. Their alumni chapters, which organized recs for the girl, are wondering what course of action to take (i.e. letter to Nationals? etc).

This chapter at this particular university (which is a top notch school, btw, very high in standings for academics) has been established for 50+ years here and is one of the "top 4" sororities they have.

I just don't understand what happenned.

-sorority belle

p.s. The girl met all the grade requirements, etc, I am told.

[kddani]

I read your post, and I see absolutely nothing that could be taken as "unfair" treatment.

*She was invited back several times. My sorority also has a rule that if you invite a legacy to pref, she must be at the top of your bid list (thus automatically giving her a bid). If they invited her several times, they obviously either liked her a lot or really wanted to try to give her the chance to live up to her billing. But in the end, when you pick what women to invite to pref, you are picking women that could be your sisters on bid night. Sometimes a potential new member may be super nice, etc. etc. but her personality just may not fit in with the chapter or fit their needs.

* She could only make it to 5 minutes of Round 2? So what? She was invited back to round 3, so it's not like she was cut because of that. How is this any evidence of the sorority not wanting her there? THEY INVITED HER BACK, AGAIN!

* I'm not sure how this is a "classic" example of turning a whole family against the greek system. It sounds more like a problem within the family. From what you say, it really sounds like this girl had no choice but to try her hardest to go to this house. Yes, she may have liked it there and she does have the legacy, but ANYONE who rushes, no matter how great you are and how many recs you have, needs to keep an open mind and consider other houses as well.
I think this is more a "classic" example of a rushee with blinders on only going for one house.

*They're not donating any money? That's petty of them, and once again, their own personal problem. There's NEVER a guarantee, in any organization at any campus of getting in a certain house. If they had been lied to or deceived somehow, yes they would have a right to be very upset. But they weren't.

* Their alumnae chapters? It's not the alumnae chapter's business. What goes on in membership selection and the reasons women got cut are ritual and private, even to other members.

*The house being one of the "top 4" on campus. That means many other girls wanted them. In many cases, houses have more legacies going through rush than they have bids to give. Someone has to get cut.

This sounds like a very ridiculous situation that the family should have seen coming.

[MSKKG]

What a predicament! If you release a legacy too early, there are hard feelings along the lines that the chapter didn't get to know her better. If you release a legacy right before Pref, there are reeeaaaallly hard feelings, more like shock. If it works out that the PNM is happy where she pledges, that at least is one positive out of a sticky situation.

My best friend from HS is a legacy to another GLO. She really felt more comfortable with the Kappas, but I think she would have considered the other group had they offered her a bid. When they released her after Skit, she was a little relieved that the decision to cut them had been taken from her. Her sister, however, was hot! Her sister didn't go to Ole Miss, so at least there was that.

Another friend of mine had a sister going through at Clemson (my friend did not go there). She was cut right before Pref. It really was a shock because she was everything GLOs are looking for--smart, pretty, loyal, active, etc. She pledged another group and is happy. She has a position of leadership, too. She liked this group also, but what if she had "cut her throat" and acted snobby at the other parties--she would have been released from everyone then! Everything worked out for the best, I guess.

My chapter was in this situation when I was in college. The sister of two very active, recent alums came through with a below average GPA. She had no activities to speak of. I won't go on, but you get the picture. We agonized over her, but in the end we released her, early enough to not give her false hopes. I don't know if it was the right thing to do or if there were irreparable hard feelings, but that's what happened.

[kappaloo]

I have to agree with kddani. In Kappa, if we invite a legacy to pref, we have to offer her a bid. Unfortunately, there have been cases where the number of legacies rushing a chapter has been LARGER than quota. So, cutting legacies must occur. Often it is nothing personal - but really when it comes to pref, and hence bids, the chapter must think of its own well being and sustainment. Is it fair to the chapter that they must cut an excellent non-legacy just because a so-so (not saying your friend was so-so at all!!!) legacy feel she MUST be offered a bid?

[Angels&Arrows]

Unfortunately, unless you are present during voting.. you never know what happened.

I will not bother asking what house.. but I will ask the school.

Different chapters... different schools have different policies. For example, my chapter only dropped a legacy one time, while I was an active. There were several issues, grades among them. Her mother sent a letter with her RIF explaining that her daughter's grades were not up-to-par, etc. We called and spoke with her, during rush and let her know that she would be invited back to round two, due to fraternity rules, but not round three. We hoped that she found a home, if she did not, she should work on grades. If we lost any seniors in December that we would invite her in the Spring. She found a home and everyone was happy! We could take two grade risks during formal recruitment. One year, we even dropped a girl everyone LOVED, because we had a legacy with grade problems.

We have a few chapters that have more legacies going through rush, then quota will allow us to pledge. So obivously some legs get dropped.

Like i said before, unless you are present during voting.. you never know what happened.

I hope the chapter at least gave the mother and grandmother courtesy calls before they dropped your friend. And I also hope she found her home elsewhere.

[sorority belle]

Originally posted by kddani
I read your post, and I see absolutely nothing that could be taken as "unfair" treatment.

*They're not donating any money? That's petty of them, and once again, their own personal problem. There's NEVER a guarantee, in any organization at any campus of getting in a certain house. If they had been lied to or deceived somehow, yes they would have a right to be very upset. But they weren't.

* Their alumnae chapters? It's not the alumnae chapter's business. What goes on in membership selection and the reasons women got cut are ritual and private, even to other members.

*The house being one of the "top 4" on campus. That means many other girls wanted them. In many cases, houses have more legacies going through rush than they have bids to give. Someone has to get cut.

This sounds like a very ridiculous situation that the family should have seen coming.

Well I just wanted to see what your experiences in this category have been.

It is common practice around here at least (Deep South) for alumni chapters to pretty much "organize" the recs for a legacy. Down here it is "big business" for girls to follow their mothers/grandmothers/sisters/whatever into a sorority, and the Alumni Chapters felt they had been given a slap in the face when they did not get any letter/phone call from the Recruitment Chair at this sorority (apparently this is standard procedure...I don't know the workings of contacting recs or whatever, I'm just a member whose never held a Recruitment Higher-Up Position) telling them that they had cut their PNM.

The girl's mother said she had "given up on her college chapter" because of this incident and some other incidents (just general behavior of their girls or something, I am not really sure) and had decided to quit donating as much.

I guess I don't know how they DO go about it, but how does your chapter cut a legacy? Do they call their legacy-person (I forgot the name--you know, the mom/grandmother/sister/aunt/etc) and tell them? Send a note?

-sorority belle

[FuzzieAlum]

There's no way she would have been dropped just for missing part of a party. There could be two things going on:

1) The chapter had more legacies than places. That does happen at some schools. Obviously, they can't all get bids.

2) There's some *real* reason the chapter cut her. I don't know what org we're talking about, but most nationals do not like it when you cut a legacy, especially someone with that much family history and a record of giving. Generally, they make the chapter justify it, and it can't be, "She just didn't fit." For example, AXD policy states, "A legacy may be released during recruitment only with the permission of the chapter's Area Facilitator."

Furthermore, many sorority's rules forbid cutting a legacy until after a certain party. Whether that's "stringing along" or not is moot, because her very involved relatives would have known that policy and would have realized being invited to second or third party many not mean they want her, and they should tell her that. (That rule may be waived in case of bad grades, I'm not sure.)

[sorority belle]

Originally posted by Angels&Arrows
I hope the chapter at least gave the mother and grandmother courtesy calls before they dropped your friend. And I also hope she found her home elsewhere.

Actually this is the thing that got this girl's mom so worked up!

Apparently she was the Recruitment Chair for her chapter in college and she knew how it was supposed to work. However when she heard nothing and called her daughter after pref night, it became a big mess.

[sorority belle]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum

Furthermore, many sorority's rules forbid cutting a legacy until after a certain party. Whether that's "stringing along" or not is moot, because her very involved relatives would have known that policy and would have realized being invited to second or third party many not mean they want her, and they should tell her that. (That rule may be waived in case of bad grades, I'm not sure.)

I know my sorority does it too.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by sorority belle
Actually this is the thing that got this girl's mom so worked up!

Apparently she was the Recruitment Chair for her chapter in college and she knew how it was supposed to work. However when she heard nothing and called her daughter after pref night, it became a big mess.

Perhaps there has been a policy change since she had been there? I know some sororities have rules AGAINST telling family members anything about their legacies during recruitment.

[Glitter650]

Perhaps the alumnae chapter should be upset that they didn't receive a call ( if that is standard procedure, or part of the legacy polidy like I know it is in Phi Sig) but I really don't think that they can be devastated that this girl didn't get a bid. I don't know of ANY sorority that says a legacy HAS to receive a bid (as has been stated before some schools have more legacies than quota... so it's just not practical) It seems to me that the chapter more than likely followed their org's policy regarding leagcy, I know Phi Sig policy is if that legacies get invited to all invitational rounds before pref. So if this chapter's policy is anything like ours, the chapter followed the rules.

[mu_agd]

I have very mixed emotions about this topic. I was cut as a legacy, actually very early on. My sister was president of the chapter that I rushed, and received rec forms from her as well as others that I knew. This is also a case where people were supposed to be informed that I was cut and they weren't. It later got back to my sister that I was cut because of people that didn't like her didn't want me to be a part of the chapter. I was quite upset at first but then realized that if that was the way the people were going to act then I didn't want to be a part of it. And I'm glad I joined AGD, because it definately was the place for me!

[AchtungBaby80]

I was cut from the sorority I was a legacy to. It happens. I didn't expect to get a bid from that group anyway, because my sisters (whose chapter was at another school) warned me that I might not fit in very well in the chapter at my university, which I didn't, and also, I was a sophomore. Sophomores can sometimes have it tough with the bigger chapters. I'm really sorry this girl was cut like that--I always heard that the chapter was supposed to inform the family if they were going to cut a legacy, but maybe that's not the case with all sororities. It really sucks for her, but nothing is guaranteed, and like others said, I hope she found a home at a different house.

[fire1977]

you know, I love my organization, but I have been on the negative receiving end of our "legacy" policy and the positive. Suffice it to say that there was someone we **REALLY** didn't want who came through recruitment. We got to know her, we even talked about stuff that would give us rush infractions so she would go to another house, finally we tried to drop her but we weren't allowed.

From what I've been hearing, my chapter will be getting a legacy next year. All four of this girls sisters are alum from our chapter. I hope that they like her.

I have three younger sisters and as much as I would love them to be in DPhiE, I would rather that they go somewhere they want that wants them equally as much.

[honeychile]

One of my best friends was not only a triple-threat legacy to the chapter where she was rushing (mother, aunt, grandmother), but her grandmother was a Founder. She got cut prior to Pref. Now, she was totally relieved, because she didn't really like the chapter that much, but wanted to please her family and she had loved ADPi from Day One. Her grandmother was completely hysterical, however!

Our policy is to give all legacies the courtesy of at least 2 rounds, and if she is to be cut, a personal telephone call and a follow up letter is to be sent to the mother or whomever. Frankly, I feel that's only common courtesy - no matter how many legacies are involved in rush. I was Rec Chair, and I know that I also had to write a thank you and a "yes, she pledged" or "I'm sorry to inform you" letter to EVERYONE who took the time to send in a rec.

I haven't been at Bid Matching in a couple years, but legacies invited back to Pref were to appear in alphabetical order at the top of our bid sheets - again, no matter how many.

The only thing that I see that was done incorrectly in the opening scenario was the lack of a phone call to the pnm's mother. I would hope that more actives see this, and realize the importance of one simple telephone call!

honeychile