Family Love?

[gamma_girl52]

Hello all,

I know we haven't talked about this one in a minute. And this thread was probably one of the best convos I have had with my brothers and sisters.

The reason why I'm bringing this back up...I met a couple of you at the annual Cookout this year (Casanova, Big Papa 29 and bro_strawter, but he didn't know my face when I hugged him, lol). And I wanted to ask some questions, to get it started.

The first question is actually directed to Casanova, who pledged at a co-ed chapter and this was his first "exposure", if you will, to the 25/52 family. What did you think? Honestly. I'd like to see what your opinon is on everything...hopefully it's not too loaded. But I think I need to see how you're looking at it from a co-ed member perspective.

And to my Psi Phi peeps...I did meet see young lady that was a member of your chapter and I don't think anybody treated her disrespectfully while she was there. But because ya'll are openly co-ed, and an African-American chapter as well, how well does your chapter "fit in" in the family? Have ya'll ever had drama before with other brothers/chapters because of it?

And to the group: I don't know about APO Nationals, but I believe my Nationals just doesn't know what to do with the fact that some of their members associate with APO...and the entire thing is not official to start with. Would it help any if we acknowledged each other more formally, including each other's organization in our history? Or maybe another avenue? I'm asking because I think in order for people to take "us" seriously, we are going to have to do something, and fast.

I think that's it for right now...let me hear your thoughts!

[~Q5~]

APO recognizes GSS...one sentence in the pledge manual is more than enough. That one small step probably took a half a century.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by ~Q5~
APO recognizes GSS...one sentence in the pledge manual is more than enough. That one small step probably took a half a century.

Soror,

That's a good point, but from what I was told it wasn't exactly in the most positive way. More like Gamma Sig was in "violation" of Title X (or whatever title it was, lol). And you know that it's not written ANYWHERE in Gamma Sig history-it's more verbal than anything because one of our founders said it.

So to me, that one sentence isn't enough...and we ought to be portrayed in a more positive light...if I was misquoting the above, let me know.

[~Q5~]

well last i checked that wasnt so. I dont know how they could get that out of one sentence, but the pledge manual is online you can look it up for yourself.

Besides thats not the real point, the point is the wheels of APO turn very slowly and if you try to push it, its more than likely to stop all together than move forward. Some of us know it takes lots of time and planning to make things happen with apo. right now some of us are at the 2 year point and things are finally coming to the forefront

[prettyDrLuv]

"And to the group: I don't know about APO Nationals, but I believe my Nationals just doesn't know what to do with the fact that some of their members associate with APO...and the entire thing is not official to start with. Would it help any if we acknowledged each other more formally, including each other's organization in our history? Or maybe another avenue? I'm asking because I think in order for people to take "us" seriously, we are going to have to do something, and fast." - Gamma_girl52

I am confused. (I just read this thread, and I don't know what was said in the other thread that was deleted.) Why do you feel that it is important to your sorority to be recognized by my fraternity? Who is the "us" that you refer to? Is it Gamma Sigma Sigma alone or both Alpha Phi Omega and Gamma Sigma Sigma?

Although I do understand that Gamma Sigma Sigma has a very close relationship with many chapters, the same can be said of Omega Phi Alpha. I think everyone should be proud of their history, as I am proud of mine. That being said, not all chapters of Alpha Phi Omega are affliliated with a service sorority and even if a service sorority is located on their campus, that partnership should be left to each chapter's discretion, regardless of history. I would be worried about that, if added to our history, Gamma Sigma Sigma would be too closely associated. (I mean no disrepect to your organization, but where would the line be drawn?)

Ultimately to ask Nationals or to vote at the convention to add Gamma Sigma Sigma more formally to our history is not something I would support.

In Leadership, Friendship and Service,

PrettyDrLuv

[~Q5~]

Originally posted by prettyDrLuv
"
Ultimately to ask Nationals or to vote at the convention to add Gamma Sigma Sigma more formally to our history is not something I would support.

In Leadership, Friendship and Service,

PrettyDrLuv

Dont think anyone would vote in favor of this one, i know i wouldnt vote for it either. The argument would probably be too strong against it. There are too many things that can turn awry ( i think thats the word i am looking for) and there is not enough answer to the question of why it is necessary/needed. It would have to benefit apo somehow for something like that to even come up for discussion so maybe we should tackle that.

How would it benefit APO as a whole (emphasis on the entire Nat'l org) to include GSS in its history? What about Omega Phi Alpha I mean if APO were to include anyone (not that it would happen mind you)I would expect it to be an org that includes it in its nat'l history. But it still goes back to how this would benefit APO...the service supermonster.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by prettyDrLuv


I am confused. (I just read this thread, and I don't know what was said in the other thread that was deleted.) Why do you feel that it is important to your sorority to be recognized by my fraternity? Who is the "us" that you refer to? Is it Gamma Sigma Sigma alone or both Alpha Phi Omega and Gamma Sigma Sigma?

Although I do understand that Gamma Sigma Sigma has a very close relationship with many chapters, the same can be said of Omega Phi Alpha. I think everyone should be proud of their history, as I am proud of mine. That being said, not all chapters of Alpha Phi Omega are affliliated with a service sorority and even if a service sorority is located on their campus, that partnership should be left to each chapter's discretion, regardless of history. I would be worried about that, if added to our history, Gamma Sigma Sigma would be too closely associated. (I mean no disrepect to your organization, but where would the line be drawn?)

Ultimately to ask Nationals or to vote at the convention to add Gamma Sigma Sigma more formally to our history is not something I would support.

In Leadership, Friendship and Service,

PrettyDrLuv

I apologize if anything wasn't clear in the beginning. It wouldn't be, because the other thread was deleted and you would have known some other things talked about in that other thread.

I personally find it important because (without boring you too much with GSS history) our founders found that they wanted to form an organization similar to Alpha Phi Omega. Some of the founders were dating APO men at the time. So they credit APO a little bit for the reason why Gamma Sig was founded. Alpha Phi Omega wasn't the SOLE reason why, but important just the same. When GSS held a Convention some years after their founding, they invited the National President of your fraternity to participate.

You are right. It is up to each chapter to decide whether or not they want to affiliate with a service sorority on that campus. There are campuses where Alpha Phi Omega and Gamma Sig very openly acknowledge each other as brother and sister. So what I'm saying is that the relationship is there-why are people not acknowleging it. It's like it doesn't even exist and the national bodies of BOTH organizations know this is going on, but are not even speaking on it. Now that this relationship (otherwise known as "25/52") is growing, now everyone is examining it, trying to find out just where it came from. Maybe I'm seeing this more from my Nationals. The vibe I'm getting from most APO members is, "We really don't care and we're really not voting on that". Which is cool.

Hopefully this gave you some more clarification on the subject.

[notorious4it]

It seems to me that APO is an important part of our history because of the relationship between our founders and the APO men and that is something that should be preserved.
Just like with Phi Rho Eta Social Frat being foudned by ALpha phi Omega men and then using Frnak Reed Horton;s initials to come up with their letters. If I'm wrong correct me but the family is a way of preserving the relationship between our founders and Alpha Phi Omega so I dont understand why so any APO discredit the relationship it should be an honor to know that those before you were influential in the creation of the wonderful sorority.
Notorious

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by notorious4it
If I'm wrong correct me but the family is a way of preserving the relationship between our founders and Alpha Phi Omega so I dont understand why so any APO discredit the relationship it should be an honor to know that those before you were influential in the creation of the wonderful sorority.
Notorious

That's what we'd like to think with your above statement, but unfortunately the reality is that many Alpha Phi Omega members don't understand, know about, or care about the relationship between our sorority and their fraternity. And you know what, I can even say that with our OWN sisters...some of them don't know what the deal is and are not trying to know as well.

Which is why I am saying, this needs to be on paper, documented that the relationship is indeed there. I don't know about you soror, but when I was pledging, this is what I was taught. Not only did I learn about the 25/52 family, but I also learned about the history of the fraternity overall (basic info, not anything else). And this is why 25/52 continues. We teach it to new members and it spreads, however what's missing is not having it OFFICIALLY on paper somewhere. It's oral history and that's not "valid" if you feel what I'm saying. The story is there, most people in both orgs know about it, but the validity is not there.

Now it got me to thinking too, none of the D9 orgs (with the exception of the Blue and White) officially recognize those relationships between their orgs either. But the difference is, it's across the board.

What about that?

[Virtuous Woman]

The "problem" in my opinion about the whole 25/52 relationship is that it's not inclusive. If it were about ALL members of Alpha Phi Omega bonding and recognizing a common history with ALL members of Gamma Sigma Sigma it would be completely different. If it were inclusive then perhaps it would catch on and be documented but because it excludes a segment of both organizations, it doesn't make sense to put it on paper anywhere.

I have a question: What is the urgency or the necesity of recognizing the 25/52 relationship? D9 orgs (with the exception of Sigma and Zeta) do not recognize each other but people are still OK with this relationship and it is still able to prosper.

[~Q5~]

I hope thats not what this thread is going to end up talking about. Now i got to wonder was this just a ploy to get people talking about the "sect" definite no-no( only you would get that Bsoldier). Geez!sadness.

[gamma_girl52]

Originally posted by Virtuous Woman
The "problem" in my opinion about the whole 25/52 relationship is that it's not inclusive. If it were about ALL members of Alpha Phi Omega bonding and recognizing a common history with ALL members of Gamma Sigma Sigma it would be completely different. If it were inclusive then perhaps it would catch on and be documented but because it excludes a segment of both organizations, it doesn't make sense to put it on paper anywhere.

I have a question: What is the urgency or the necesity of recognizing the 25/52 relationship? D9 orgs (with the exception of Sigma and Zeta) do not recognize each other but people are still OK with this relationship and it is still able to prosper.

Well,

That is true. It doesn't include everyone (female frat members/male sorority members). But maybe that is the problem...*sigh* See, now that means we would have to get into why this was even created in the first place and I really do not want to get into that. The whole thread would be on fire, lol.

For me, I don't care about whether or not there are women in Alpha Phi Omega...that decision was made even before I was thought about. I have love for everybody, and quite frankly I'm about business within Gamma Sig and no where else. It's not so much that I'm burning up to get this documented-perhaps it doesn't need to be because we as organizations are doing just fine without it. I think what I am trying to do is let people know that we're out there and we're actually about something positive, not sitting around bashing those who don't participate.

This isn't going to turn into a pro-fam or against-fam discussion, because it's everybody's individual choice. Me, if you're a fraternity member then you're my brother, hands down. Male, female, whatever. It is so much bigger than that at least to me. I think we need to just have respect for each other's individual choice in organization. Does everybody feel me.

[prettyDrLuv]

After reading some more messages, I still maintain my original position and agree with Virtuous Woman. This is pretty interesting, although I do not understand some of it.

I do have some questions about Gamma Sigma Sigma. First, how many chapters currently are at universities that also have active chapters of Alpha Phi Omega? How many active chapters does Gamma Sigma Sigma have all together? (I have heard of your sorority, but know of no member personally.) Also, would it be fair to say that most of the chapters of Alpha Phi Omega that you, personally, are affiliated with are co-ed? (I know of less than 12 all-male chapters, maybe less.)

Maybe that would help me understand this more.

Thanks for your help.

In Leadership, Friendship and Service,
PrettyDrLuv

[notorious4it]

In all honesty most co-ed chapters that I know of don't really associate on the level with Gamma Sigs that all male chapters do. The guys don't like to upset the female members and I respect that so I just step off. I personally have no problem with female APOs because we have more in common than male APOs because not only are we about service but we're also women. SOme sorors don't feel the same some do. We need to communicate because if the two groups were able to come together and work it would be great for ou communities and schools
NOtorious #4

[gamma_girl52]

I'd have to get back to you on your first question but there's a good amount. Some recognize each other as bro/sister, most do not.

Gamma Sig has a total of 45 chapters counting alum.

I have met brothers that pledged @ a co-ed chapter, but still recognize me as a sister.