Rankings?

[TexasAGD]

Where do you go to find out about rankings of fraternities and sororites? Is there a site where the result of polls are shown? Or, does anyone know who is rated the number 1 fraternity and sorority?

[DeltAlum]

Ain't gonna go there. Too many variables and too much loyalty. We all think our own organization is the best -- and, in at least some ways, we all are.

[ROWDYsister]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Ain't gonna go there. Too many variables and too much loyalty. We all think our own organization is the best -- and, in at least some ways, we all are.

Ha ha, DeltAlum...I was thinking the same thing. Too sensitive a subject. The most diplomatic thing to say is, "We are all the best in our own ways." And there is no way you could call any brotherhood or sisterhood any better than the rest, though some may be better than others in different categories, and even then how can you evaluate everyone considering how different chapters are within each organization? It's all subjective.

[PiKA2001]

All groups are the best in some way or another. I dont think that there is #1 fraternity or any thing like that. If you want info on certain groups, go to the international(headquarter) websites and usually under the facts link they have stuff posted.

[ACEOFDIAMOND]

I think the ranking should be a personal one, the best organization (for you) is the one you fit into the best. All groups have their strengths and weaknesses but it's not for anyone but yourself to decide what's the best. One that might be right for someone else, might not be right for you and vice versa. All groups deserve lots of credit for everything though. Just my thought.

[33girl]

Well, I heard if ASA beats Georgia Tech in the Rose Bowl, we'll move up to #5.

In case you haven't guessed, the whole concept of "rating" or "ranking" sororities and fraternities is utterly ridiculous.

[hoosier]

Although he died more than 10 years ago, there was a guy named Wilson Heller, a PiKA from U. Mo. living in Southern California, who had an accurate national ranking system for chapters. It was his hobby.

Some national GLOs (most quietly and totally secretly) helped him distribute ranking questionaires to chapter presidents, and he used these to "rank" the chapters on every campus by "power, prominence, and prestige" - and this was quite a job at places with 30-plus chapters - plus maybe 20 sororities too. At one time, I think U.Ill. had 52 to 57 chapters. The chapter president was asked to rank all chapters except his own, and then asked "honestly, where would others rank your chapter?"

He would prepare a report for the national GLO, with his ranking each chapter, something like:

U of AL: ranked 12 to 15 of 25
Auburn: rank 5 to 6 of 21

It might also include a note (up slightly, or falling fast), comparing this year's ranking with the past.

He also combined all of these campus rankings into a "National GLO rankings", ranking your GLO and mine from 1 to 60 (or however many there were). He did the same for the 30-some sororities.

Wilson Heller also published a monthly by-subscription newsletter, with all the news you wouldn't see in the national GLO magazine. This newsletter was barely better than mimeographed - appearing to always be typed on an old typewriter needing a ribbon (which it was). Contents included chapter deaths/suspensions, scandals, and lies which he caught in GLO magazines.

Altho many many of the nationals subscribed and paid for Heller's rankings and newsletter (he had 3,000 subscribers), it was all secret. At each annual meeting of the NIC, editors, and professional staff, someone (a real stuffed shirt) would bring up a motion "let's condemn anybody who ranks chapters and nationals", and it would be passed unanimously annually. As soon as these staff people got back to the office, they would write or phone Heller and report that they had unanimously voted again to comdemn him - and everyone had a good chuckle.

Usually at the annual NIC meeting, Heller would show up and sit around in some corner, renewing his friendships with national GLO leaders. He never registered for the NIC or attended any function.

He was a great friend of many, was a great storyteller, and enjoyed a cold beer any time after work. Professionally, he had been a PR man and agent for some well-known Hollywood stars.

During his younger years, he traveled the nation, and visited many chapters of PiKA and other GLOs. In some of these other GLOs, the chapters liked him so much that they bought him a life-time subscription to the GLO mag. In later years, he loved to annoy national GLOs (who were not among his supporters) by reminding them that he was a lifetime subscriber to their magazine.

When he died, his records and data were supposed to be passed along to another southern Cal fraternity nut (he's now dead too), but if that happened it was for naught. Nothing ever was published following his death.

The national GLO rankings in Heller's later years agreed with the opinions of most people who have visited lots of campuses and chapters, with SAE and Sigma Chi tops among the men and Chi Omega and Kappa Kappa Gamma highest among the women. It probably hasn't changed much to date.

Heller constantly wrote and preached that "size solves all problems", and comparing the rankings with chapter sizes confirmed that the chapter presidents generally ranked their own campus chapters' "power, prominence, and prestige" very closely following size. The myths of "small quality chapter" and "quality, not quantity" are just that - sound good, but just myths.

One time I was hired to be chapter advisor for a weeny chapter, that was old, well housed, and had wealthy alumni. Heller sent me a note: "Take anybody wearing pants." Taking a houseful of pants-wearer probably would have done the job, but I couldn't talk the men into it.

If life (even on campus), there's competition. Where there is competition, there are comparisons - even rankings.

Everyone on your campus has an opinion on "what's the top GLO here" (if you can't choose your own) and in 90% of the cases or more the opinions will agree.

I wish Wilson Heller was still around, annoying the stuffed shirts with his rankings.

[carnation]

Omigosh. I saw that in the seventies! My boss, the dean of Student Activities came in, shut the door, and whispered that she had a copy of it and was acting like we had a copy of Playgirl the way she was hiding it. I guess it would've looked bad for her, the Panhel Advisor, to be seen with it.

You're right, it looked like some guy did it on his manual.

[KEPike]

Originally posted by hoosier
Although he died more than 10 years ago, there was a guy named Wilson Heller, a PiKA from U. Mo. living in Southern California, who had an accurate national ranking system for chapters. It was his hobby.

Our history manual, "The Oak - A History of Pi Kappa Alpha", does have mention to rankings of fraternities in the 50s and 60s. I would suspect that Wilson Heller was behind these. Pretty much it talks about how we were a "middle of the road" fraternity, so at least he wasn't biased!

It is really interesting to hear about this though. I've always been curious about Greek rankings and how they are calculated, so thanks for the info!

[TrojanGirl]

One good thing about a small school and a small greek system - no matter what, we are one of the top 3 NPC groups on campus!

Ok, so there are only 3...

TG

[UDZETA]

Originally posted by TrojanGirl
One good thing about a small school and a small greek system - no matter what, we are one of the top 3 NPC groups on campus!

Ok, so there are only 3...

TG

Boy you said that right! I'm from a campus where the greek system is small which means we are always in the top three. But we would be in the top three if we were at a big greek campus too!

[TexasAGD]

Interesting.....I guess it is pretty much the same today as it was back then in terms of "power, prominence, and prestigue". Some chapters have it and others lack it. A couple of months ago I came upon the gallop poll on the subject of rankings, and it was pretty much accurate as to what chapters made the list or not.

[UCFPhiDelt]

The information on Heller and his ranking system was interesting. I was curious and so I looked on the net for further information. He died in 1983 and left all of his documentation to a Masonic brother, William T. Bringham, Sr., former president of the National Interfraternity Foundation. Bringham served 35 years as chief administrative officer of Sigma Chi and executive director of the Sigma Chi Foundation. When Brigham in turn past away he gave Heller's papers to the Stewart Howe Foundation and the University of Illinois Archives in 1992. The material still resides there and is accessible to the public.

[Erik P Conard]

Originally posted by hoosier
Although he died more than 10 years ago, there was a guy named Wilson Heller, a PiKA from U. Mo. living in Southern California, who had an accurate national ranking system for chapters. It was his hobby.

Some national GLOs (most quietly and totally secretly) helped him distribute ranking questionaires to chapter presidents, and he used these to "rank" the chapters on every campus by "power, prominence, and prestige" - and this was quite a job at places with 30-plus chapters - plus maybe 20 sororities too. At one time, I think U.Ill. had 52 to 57 chapters. The chapter president was asked to rank all chapters except his own, and then asked "honestly, where would others rank your chapter?"

He would prepare a report for the national GLO, with his ranking each chapter, something like:

U of AL: ranked 12 to 15 of 25
Auburn: rank 5 to 6 of 21

It might also include a note (up slightly, or falling fast), comparing this year's ranking with the past.

He also combined all of these campus rankings into a "National GLO rankings", ranking your GLO and mine from 1 to 60 (or however many there were). He did the same for the 30-some sororities.

Wilson Heller also published a monthly by-subscription newsletter, with all the news you wouldn't see in the national GLO magazine. This newsletter was barely better than mimeographed - appearing to always be typed on an old typewriter needing a ribbon (which it was). Contents included chapter deaths/suspensions, scandals, and lies which he caught in GLO magazines.

Altho many many of the nationals subscribed and paid for Heller's rankings and newsletter (he had 3,000 subscribers), it was all secret. At each annual meeting of the NIC, editors, and professional staff, someone (a real stuffed shirt) would bring up a motion "let's condemn anybody who ranks chapters and nationals", and it would be passed unanimously annually. As soon as these staff people got back to the office, they would write or phone Heller and report that they had unanimously voted again to comdemn him - and everyone had a good chuckle.

Usually at the annual NIC meeting, Heller would show up and sit around in some corner, renewing his friendships with national GLO leaders. He never registered for the NIC or attended any function.

He was a great friend of many, was a great storyteller, and enjoyed a cold beer any time after work. Professionally, he had been a PR man and agent for some well-known Hollywood stars.

During his younger years, he traveled the nation, and visited many chapters of PiKA and other GLOs. In some of these other GLOs, the chapters liked him so much that they bought him a life-time subscription to the GLO mag. In later years, he loved to annoy national GLOs (who were not among his supporters) by reminding them that he was a lifetime subscriber to their magazine.

When he died, his records and data were supposed to be passed along to another southern Cal fraternity nut (he's now dead too), but if that happened it was for naught. Nothing ever was published following his death.

The national GLO rankings in Heller's later years agreed with the opinions of most people who have visited lots of campuses and chapters, with SAE and Sigma Chi tops among the men and Chi Omega and Kappa Kappa Gamma highest among the women. It probably hasn't changed much to date.

Heller constantly wrote and preached that "size solves all problems", and comparing the rankings with chapter sizes confirmed that the chapter presidents generally ranked their own campus chapters' "power, prominence, and prestige" very closely following size. The myths of "small quality chapter" and "quality, not quantity" are just that - sound good, but just myths.

One time I was hired to be chapter advisor for a weeny chapter, that was old, well housed, and had wealthy alumni. Heller sent me a note: "Take anybody wearing pants." Taking a houseful of pants-wearer probably would have done the job, but I couldn't talk the men into it.

If life (even on campus), there's competition. Where there is competition, there are comparisons - even rankings.

Everyone on your campus has an opinion on "what's the top GLO here" (if you can't choose your own) and in 90% of the cases or more the opinions will agree.

I wish Wilson Heller was still around, annoying the stuffed shirts with his rankings.

[Erik P Conard]

Originally posted by TexasAGD
Where do you go to find out about rankings of fraternities and sororites? Is there a site where the result of polls are shown? Or, does anyone know who is rated the number 1 fraternity and sorority?

Please post this in Pi Kappa Alpha site, too....
WILSON BENTON HELLER was born in NE 1 Aug 1893. He died in LA 30 June 1983. Joined PiKA at U Mo about 1913. He served in WWI as a flyer and was an "ace." He was a press agent and erstwhile actor's agent in Hollywood. His hobby was
indeed fraternties, and all the other observations of him on this
site.,so far as I know, are quite accurate.
Wilson was disenchanted with Pike, then generally called PiKA or Pi Kap, and was impatient about growth. He was isolated from the "honor seekers and freeloaders (his words)" and held
most college deans and administrators in utter contempt.
He hated the old line fraternities, favored the newer ones, especially TKE and Sig Ep. Both Teke and Sig Ep were on the expansion trail, and this writer was a TKE field man from '57 t o '60. I met Wilson many, many times and fed him a lot of info, got
many letters from him, typed generally, single-spaced, margin-to-margin, on scraps of paper. I have kept a lot of those notes from him. And I have copies of most of this ratings. He did not
play fair, I thought, in total national strength ratings in the obtained a score, multiplied it by the number of chapters, and, voila! The larger outfits were always up there. There is few who
would doubt that SAE was best-run outfit in '50s, though. But no one would doubt that Heller loved the Greeks and his jabs were intended at goading them to improve their lot...
Wilson would rarely wear a white shirt. He preferred a logger-
type, perhaps a print, likely corduroy and a bow tie, not at all in
fashion.
Wilson could not be cajoled, bought, intimidated or harassed by
anyone. Favor seekers were generally rebuffed. He was going
to leave his stuff to the late George William Woolery, TKE, who
was sick and eventually died from complications of diabetes. He did not leave the things to George and I always wondered where they went.....thanks, informant! He was going to proivde
handily for Dick Hall (TKE)'s kids in his will but never did and his
widow, I am told, left it all to the LDS church. Heller was quite fond of Dick Hall, then TKE Executive Secretary. He thought that
Nelson George Burhans (TKE, Hartwick) was the smoothest, the most mannered, and polished fielder to ever become a knight of the road. Had little regard for the NIC or the Banta group. He sent out thousands of surveys to college campuses
all over the country, and was pretty accurate, whether we liked it
or not. Placed emphasis on size, and has never been successfully refuted (his words, too). WBH was unique....
Wilson would be very proud of Pi Kappa Alpha today, arguably the hottest ticket amongst the greeks at the moment.
I have some wonderful memories of Heller, and he said a lot of
nice things about that brash young Kansan who got results in
the '50s. Wilson, old pal, we need you today, we really do.
Erik P Conard, TKE, PhD, active again after many years away....