The importance of conversation/personality during recruitment
 

I have been lurking on GreekChat for some time now and there is one thing that has always bothered me about the recruitment advice given out. So many women come on here upset because they received heavy cuts and had what they felt were strong GPAs, recs and activities. OK, this is probably true, but given the college admissions processes I’d say it is safe to say that your GPA, activities and recs were probably very similar, if not “identical”, to the majority of women going through recruitment. Those were the vary stats that got you into your college of choice so it only seems normal to assume that most other women in recruitment had stats of similar strength.

Also, so many actives or alumna will say things like, “Make sure your grades and activities are in order!”, which is exellent advice, but often practicing your conversational skills is left out of their advice. I will say that I feel the number one most important thing for recruitment is your conversational ability. Once you meet a certain level for GPA, activities, etc (which varies from chapter to chapter obviously) you are in contention for getting a bid…however it is naïve to assume they are bidding based on who had the highest GPA goes first on the bid list, second highest goes second, etc. I think it is almost all about conversation and personality once you hit that certain level of activities.

The best thing? Even if you are shy you can work on these skills before recruitment. For example, there are plenty of lists on here that describe questions you are likely to be asked in early rounds. Read up on them and plan a way to answer them that will lead you into another topic.

Say you are asked “How are enjoying your dorm?” It’s one thing to say, “Oh, I like it”…but will that stand out in your rusher’s minds? A somewhat better answer would be to elaborate…”I like it a lot, everybody is so nice and the RA seems really fun, I can’t wait for this year.” That is a little bit more conversational but still it is likely that the rusher will have to ask you another basic question to keep the conversation going.

Say your answer was, instead, “Oh, I am really enjoying my dorm! I had so much fun meeting my roommate and decorating our room together…it was so fun picking out the bedding and decorations! It’s going to be a big change because I’m used to living with three older brothers and now I’m on a hall full of girls, but I’m excited to switch things up!” Now the active can go off on tangents…she can ask you how you decorated your room, what the rest of your family is like, etc. No more “basic” questions, you have an increased chance to find commonalities with the sister and you are more likely to stand out in her mind.

Another piece of advice I often see is to ask lots of questions. I agree to an extent, but make sure, once again, that the questions you ask can take you off on tangents that reveal more about yourself. If you are asking question after question, the active may think you seem interested but would not be able to tell any of the sisters a thing about your personality! But if you ask one pointed question, for example, “How does your big sister program work?” Listen to the answer, then twist it into something about yourself…maybe, “That sounds like a lot of fun. I always had a bunch of older friends when I was growing up and I always tend to look at them as mentors for me. I bet that’s how big sisters work.” Then you can steer the conversation into a realm about how her and her big sister bonded. In this case, one simple question may prove far more effective than five questions.

Also don’t be afraid to jump into “goofy” topics. Some of the best conversations that led to me forming my “rush crushes” were about shoes, embarrassing stories, high school cars that were falling apart, celebrity gossip, Disney movies…anything fun like that can reveal so much about a PNMs ability to “go with the flow”. It’s so refreshing to have conversations like that instead of the standard “what’s your major” or the women who rattle off questions. You have a very focused idea of what hanging out with them would be like AND they will stick out that much more in your mind. Then, when she starts asking questions about the chapter, you not only know she’s interested but you are positive she will fit in with the women in the chapter.

In conclusion, look at it this way. Your stats and recs and GPA will get you in the door like in a business when they decide which resumes they want to interview. Once they have their pool of qualified PNMs, however, I feel that conversation and the ability to fit in with the sisters becomes by far the most important part of recruitment. So I guess what I am trying to say is to practice answering questions in your head and practice your conversational skills. GPA and activites are highly important, but at the end of the day if your personality does not shine through the chapter may rather take a woman with a slightly lower GPA who presents herself as fun and outgoing.

In my experience, the girls with great personality/conversation/presentation ALWAYS rise to the top. Once recruitment gets started it's more of a challenge to get the chapter to focus on the PNMs who are shy, but have a heck of a resume.

this is probably some of the best advice I've heard! I can't tell you how many times I've asked questions and had a girl give a one word reply even if it's a question that should have had a much longer reply!

Also make sure not to use the typical words like nice and fun when answering questions because those don't tell the sisters much!

I'd agree that a good GPA is a foot in the door. If you have the personality of a brick wall, a chapter won't want you if you even if you have a 4.0. GCers tend to emphasize GPA when giving advice to high school students who come here for advice, PNMs at schools with deferred recruitment, and anyone who is going through as a non-freshman.

GPA based cuts at fall FMR schools will differ depending on how competitive the school is; more competitive schools will probably make fewer cuts based on GPA, because, it can't be too low or the PNM wouldn't have been admitted. Less competitive schools might have a wider range of high school GPAs and may make more cuts based on GPA.

Recs are the same way, a foot in the door. A glowing rec means next to nothing if you are bland in person (at competitive chapters at least).

ETA: I think also part of the reason that conversation doesn't get mentioned as much is because it's subjective and harder to give concrete suggestions for conversation.

thank you for posting this it's nice to hear some different advice that sounds quite helpful and realistic :)

Oh, I totally agree. It's just that I think to some PNMs or moms or whatever, when they read the advice we give they start to get the idea that a 4.0, varsity sport, 200 hours of community service and three recs will put their daughter at the top of every sororities bidlist. Realistically, she's probably high on their radar with stats like that, but if she comes off as snotty, painfully shy or resistant to answering questions it tends to negate all the incredible accomplishments she does have. Also, since those are the stats that put her in the college she is in, most other women likely have similar stats and maybe they have better personalities.

It is harder to give concrete conversation advice, but I think that PNMs do need to know this is a major criteria for many chapters and to get out there and practice meeting new people or run through "practice conversation" with sorority women/alumnae (obviously not from her school as that could be dirty rushing!) and get some honest feedback.

The PNM needs to be able to communicate this to the chapter when going through recruitment. Most schools are not going to supply a resume for the PNM so if she does not let the chapter know about her community service, sports, organizations, etc., there is no way for the chapter to know about their importance and her contribution.

Concrete Conversation Advice
 

2 words.... ACTIVE LISTENING

Don't go into a party with a list of canned questions. Just enter into a conversation naturally and LISTEN to what the other person is saying. Base your next question (or comment) on something she said.

Example:
"What did you do with your time off this summer?"

"Oh, not much -- just worked and went to see my grandparents."

Next question...ask about work or where her grandparents live, etc.

Active listening is the key.

That post was pretty much right on.

Can I just say this is great advice even for guys pursuing NPHC fraternities.

Excellent, excellent advice!

This is VERY true. The goofy topics really do show personality, including what I would call "endearing quirks." These conversations also tend to feel more personal, even if the topics aren't super deep, and while you get a sense of what it would be like to hang out with these sisters, they also get a sense of what it would be like to hang out with you. Very good way to be remembered!

Thank you for posting this!

:)

I also think that conversation isn't mentioned as much in threads because a great personality/conversation skills rarely compensates for "foot in the door" things like poor grades, non-freshman class standing (at certain schools), not having recs if most PNMs do, unkempt appearance, etc. It's absolutely like a job interview. You need certain things to get you in the door and the next step is to win chapters over with your personality by having meaningful conversations.

I absolutely agree that conversation is important. It's the heart and soul of recruitment.

The best thing to do is practice making small talk with strangers. Back up questions are good if you find the conversation lagging. Sometimes the other person won't have much to say back to you, so there's not always much to ask them about the current topic. There is also an element of nervousness in most PNMs (and sisters).

Very nice post, APhiAnna. It was articulate and accurate. Thank you for adding to the positive and useful advice in our community!

Excellent post and topic APhiAnna, but I have to disagree with this statement.Univ admission standards vary greatly from one campus to another, even from one college/major to another within a Univ. It is a mistake to assume that all PNMs are roughly equivalent in GPA, resume, etc simply based on the fact that they were accepted to that Univ.

I agree completely. I also think the reason why folks here concentrate their advice on GPA, resume, and Recs is these are concrete things that a PNM has direct control over. We want a PNM to at least be on the same footing as the majority of other PNMs and not fall victim to an automatic cut.

Overcoming personality and/or conversational issues like extreme shyness, etc. is much more difficult and as said subjective. Yet these skills can be practiced. Regardless though, no one can control or predict those times when when a PNM and an active recruiter simply have a personality clash or have nothing in common. Those should be rare though.

I think too that the goofy topics can work wonders but they have to be brought up in the right way. Say you want to talk about Disney movies...instead of asking a sister "What's your favorite Disney movie? I am obsessed with Disney!", which would look creepy, a better way is to steer a question into that area. If you are asked what you did the previous night, say "We took it pretty easy...my floormates and I stayed up and watched old Disney movies because they are my guilty pleasure." That way the sister can jump on the bait if she wants to. Or if you want to talk about vintage clothing, maybe say "I'm so excited to finally go to school in CITY! I want to figure out where everything is...do you know of a cool vintage clothing store? Those are my staples." If you bring it up right those topics can make you really memorable...if you bring it up awkwardly they are going to be like "Who the heck was that girl?"

I agree in certain cases. Obviously many schools will have a certain major or program that can be more competitive than all the others in terms of admission, and sometimes too the opposite is true. However I think a safe way to play it is to assume that your stats are par for the course so you don't rest on your laurels, so to speak. I also think that at the majority of schools in America, there is a firm "middle ground" where the majority of students will fall that has more or less the same statistics. Especially considering how competitive pretty much ALL universities are getting these days, a lot of the women will have strong stats.

The goofy topics really helped me during recruitment. I talked to some of the girls about how I'd gone to a crazy carnival in Hollywood on Halloween and saw some people dressed up as Britney Spears. They had a bunch of different versions of Britney and the girls got really excited. Come bid day, they came up to me and said thanks to my idea, a group of them were gonna dress up as the different phases of her career for Halloween. That's how they remembered me :]

Oh absolutely. It has to work naturally into a conversation or it's not going to work at all.

And people have to still maintain some discretion about what goofy topics they share. Some goofy topics are cute, but some are just too goofy (or straight-up weird) and would end up working against the rushee.

:)

How many times have we heard of PNMs with excellent resumes and recs who have great conversations at chapters, only to find they are cut the next round?

How often do we hear of a PNM at an SEC school who has the "total package" (great GPA, activities, recs), pretty, great conversationalist, but is from out of the South (thus lacking connections in chapters) get into a "top tier" chapter?

My point is that, at certain schools, there are other factors at play, like legacy status and having connections in chapters, other than conversation, resumes, and recs. Not to mention, at these schools, every PNM has a great GPA, activities, recs, and is gorgeous.

Based on what I've read on GC, at competitive schools (SEC, most of the Big XII), great conversation can not make you, but poor conversation sure can break you.

Any SECers/Big XIIers, feel free to weigh in on this.

I agree. We get this alot from moms particularly. They say, "but she was a 4.0 student, had 2 recs per chapter, and was homecomng queen and played tennis AND fed starving children in Africa, how did she get cut??" Those things alone don't guarantee bids (especially when EVERYONE has very similar stats). They don't realize that they weren't there to see their daughter interact with the sororities. They need to consider that the conversation skills/personality factor also comes into play and that maybe their daughter didn't stand out in that area.

Don't dominate the conversation, but don't let her (the sorority girl) steer it entirely either. Make sure there is a good mix of back and forth so you both get a feel for each other.

I remember someone once saying that everyone should have at least three funny stories and one cute story that they can tell anyone.

That is great advice! My dad told me this when I went off to Rush many moons ago! It was very helpful.

Not about conversation, but Dale Carnegie advises that you wear your nametag on your right side. The reasoning is that you extend your right hand to shake hands, and it's easier to see that way.

Thanks for all of the great suggestions. This is something I'm happy to know now, because no one had really mentioned it to me. Hopefully I can use these ideas next week when recruitment starts :)

Zumba was really popular. I just started doing it this year and when the girls at different houses asked what I was involved in and what kind of activities I did, a lot of them were really excited to talk about Zumba with me. It was great.

Having funny and cute stories can be super helpful too. I injured myself in a funny way and that was a great conversation starter since everyone asked what happened.

Bump, for what I feel is excellent advice.

thanks blondie93. this is a great thread.

pnms, if you feel that you are shy, or for any reason need to hone your conversation skills, summer is just starting, so there is ample time to practice. Buying some groceries?strike up a conversation with the clerk as you check out. Borrowing a book from the library? practice your convo. skills on the librarian.

a HUGE opportunity for honing those skills will be at your college orientation. you will be meeting new people from all over the country and from overseas, too. often they don't know you (and you may not see them again after your orientation, depending on the size of school you are going to) so you can practice, practice, practice. try not to hang out exclusively with old friends if they will be attending your orientation. branch out. and think about it-if you get to know some really interesting student from abu dabi, there is one more topic of conversation during recruitment!

I think this is absolutly the best advice I have read! As a incoming freshman and a pnm I found this advice really helpful. It was different then most of the same old advice and it is something that I now can work on. Thank you for such a great, helpful post! :)!

Something else that keeps coming up - is that if you have a connection to the house or know someone in house that really helps a lot. That is one of the reasons why out of state girls are at a bit of a disadvantage in the the super-competitive schools even if they are Miss Wonderful with a 4.0 and rec letters. It is also why a sophomore transfer student with ok grades can still get a bid to an "Old Row" chapter.
We have a couple of chapters here that have so many legacies going through that not surprisingly their pledge class is mostly freshmen legacies - but really - would you want to be the one girl who isn't a legacy in that case? The one girl who doesn't have a mom or older sister there on Bid Day or Initiation Day?
Also - with the new computer systems I have noticed that we have big cuts in the early rounds - this is so we don't have big cuts pref night. If you do get cut from several houses early on - please don't get discouraged. I guess what I am trying to say is don't be mad at the whole system because one group you liked liked someone else more or knew her better? The ladies that did invite you back would love to see you!

Great advice! Thanks :D

Two of my daughters are rather shy so the summer before recruitment, I practiced conversations with them at random times. We'd be driving somewhere and I'd toss out, "So, Patty PNM. Why did you decide to major in __?" and wait for them to grab the conversational ball. They would groan but pick up on it and it seemed to help, especially when I'd throw out really random topics.

See if you can get someone to practice with you.

Another option could be just practicing while driving in your car. It sounds weird, but think of questions you'll likely be asked and try to answer them. I also suggest this kind of practice for job interviews. It also helps even if you are a good conversationalist, because it helps you 'own' your answers and still sound natural and not rush your speech when the question is asked. It's worked for me while practicing for the other side of recruitment as well as for job interviews. Best of luck!

Read the Newspaper and be up on current events, especially if you're majoring in a social science. You could easily get paired up with someone who shares your major and if they open the current event can of worms, you really should have a general idea of what is going on in the world. It is really easy to get wrapped up in the "rush" bubble the week or so before, but realize there is a big world out there.