Official end of Greek Life @ Dartmouth

[PenguinTrax]

The Dartmouth
>February 15, 2000
>
>Dartmouth faculty votes 81-0 to end recognition of greek houses
>
>By Omer Ismail, The Dartmouth
>
>Monday night the faculty of the Dartmouth College of the Arts and Sciences
>unanimously approved a resolution, voting 81-0 to urge the administration
>and Trustees to withdraw College recognition from all Coed Fraternity and
>Sorority organizations once additional living space is made available.
>
>Recognizing that many Greek houses are independently owned, Associate
>Professor of Religion Susan Ackerman - who moved the resolution - told The
>Dartmouth that she hoped the houses would financially buckle without
>College support, if the administration accepts the faculty mandate.
>
>Faculty members argued that the system is a discriminatory one that can not
>be reformed, and called senior College officials to make the construction
>of new residence halls - which will enable the College to withdraw their
>support from Greek houses - their highest priority to ensure the
>derecognition occurs latest by June 30, 2005.
>
>Two faculty members abstained from voting on the resolution.
>
>Faculty members addressed a number of problems within the current Greek
system.
>
>Raising concerns that the CFS system is highly exclusive, professors argued
>that it does not conform but interferes, with the academic mission of the
>College.
>
>The Greek system "stands so antithetical to our academic message of
>openness," Ackerman said.
>
>Citing figures from the steering committee report which shows affiliated
>students tend to be mostly white and more affluent than other students,
>Ackerman called the system one of "power and privilege."
>
>Faculty members also said the Greek system promotes excessive alcohol use
>which interferes with students' academic work.
>
>Professor of History Mary Kelly said the number of students who have
>admitted to alcohol interfering with their schoolwork, to have blacked-out
>and to have taken part in "boot and rally" is disturbingly high.
>
>Faculty members said that the "substantial changes" to the Greek system
>recommended in the steering committee report will not reform the
>residential and social life at Dartmouth. They argued the complete
>withdrawal of College support is necessary.
>
>"The reality is that this is an unfixable institution," religion professor
>Kevin Reinhart said.
>
>Professors argued that plans to reform the system have been undertaken
>previously, all of which have failed to improve Dartmouth's social life.
>
>"Isn't it clear by now that reform has not and will not work?" comparative
>literature department chair Marianne Hirsch said.
>
>Faculty members expressed concern that even if the Greek houses are able to
>achieve the stringent requirement set by the Initiative recommendations,
>Dartmouth's social problems will continue to exist.
>
>Reinhart said ensuring that the Greek houses consistently maintain the
>standards will be a constant fight for the administration.
>
>English professor Tom Luxon had other concerns, arguing that the
>recommendations are sending the wrong message to the CFS houses.
>
>The administration is saying "that if they behave well enough, they can
>have the privilege of discrimination," Luxon said.
>
>The faculty of Arts and Sciences unanimously supported the principles
>behind the first three recommendations of the steering committee report -
>which call for the creation of a greatly enhanced residential cluster,
>other spaces and programs for general use and improving residential and
>social life for graduate students.
>
>The faculty agreed the residential cluster should serve educational
>functions as well as recreational, dining and social purposes. Some said
>the educational spaces will improve the out-of-classroom experience and
>encourage student-teacher interaction.
>
>Concern was raised about the costs of implementing the Student Life
>Initiative. However, College President James Wright assured the faculty
>that the Board of Trustees's decision on financing these changes "won't be
>at the expense of academic programs or the financial aid program."
>
>Before deliberating on the steering committee report, Wright also informed
>the faculty about the Trustee meetings held over the weekend - most notably
>the decision to increase the tuition fees by 3.5 percent for the 2000-2001
>academic year.
>
>The faculty voted 82-0 in favor of the Initiative last Winter term after
>the document's release.
>
>(C) 2000 The Dartmouth

[SilverTurtle]

Pnguin Trax,
Thanks for posting that. It's a topic I have followed somewhat for a year or so now, but I had not heard of that decision. I find it ironic that the administration's solution to the "social problems" caused by the Greek system is to construct housing that will operate in a very similar, in fact nearly identically manner, as the current houses. Only without the national advising and governing boards, opportunities for leadership building skills, and networking opportunities that the houses NOW offer.

I also find it difficult to believe that of those 81 members, NONE of them are Greeks themselves. And if they AREN'T, it makes you wonder about their judgement?

Anyways, thanks for the update.

[ElleDelta3]

Hi
I go to University of Wisconsin-Madison and last week when I went to president's congress for Panhell and IFC, this letter was discussed. Because the greeks got kicked off at Dartmounth, we are talking precosionary steps to avoid that. We are making ourselves go dry. No more mug nights at bars, no more alcohol at Sigma Chi's Derby Days, Du's Bump Set Splash, or Alpha Delts Softball on Ice tourney. It really kind of sucks, but we do not want what unfortunatly happened at Dartmouth to ever happen to us.

[LPIDelta]

I find it interesting that they thing underage drinking and other "social" problems will go away because the Greeks do. Are they nuts? That's what college kids do. At my college it didn't matter if you were Greek or Independant or not in a group at all... that was just the "culture". Not that I think its right, or wrong, but I bet if they look at Dartmouth in 5 years they will see the same problems.

As far as it interferring in academics, most national Greek groups have academic standards that you must adhere to. And even at the Naval Academy and West Point, where there are no fraternities and sororities and it is academically rigorous, students report that binge drinking is a problem and in some cases interfers with their classwork and/or they leadership duties.

WAKE UP DARTMOUTH! You're nuts!

[BetaboyKev]

Originally posted by PnguinTrax:
The Dartmouth
>February 15, 2000
>
>Dartmouth faculty votes 81-0 to end recognition of greek houses
>
>By Omer Ismail, The Dartmouth
>
>Monday night the faculty of the Dartmouth College of the Arts and Sciences
>unanimously approved a resolution, voting 81-0 to urge the administration
>and Trustees to withdraw College recognition from all Coed Fraternity and
>Sorority organizations once additional living space is made available.
>
>Recognizing that many Greek houses are independently owned, Associate
>Professor of Religion Susan Ackerman - who moved the resolution - told The
>Dartmouth that she hoped the houses would financially buckle without
>College support, if the administration accepts the faculty mandate.
>
>Faculty members argued that the system is a discriminatory one that can not
>be reformed, and called senior College officials to make the construction
>of new residence halls - which will enable the College to withdraw their
>support from Greek houses - their highest priority to ensure the
>derecognition occurs latest by June 30, 2005.
>
>Two faculty members abstained from voting on the resolution.
>
>Faculty members addressed a number of problems within the current Greek
system.
>
>Raising concerns that the CFS system is highly exclusive, professors argued
>that it does not conform but interferes, with the academic mission of the
>College.
>
>The Greek system "stands so antithetical to our academic message of
>openness," Ackerman said.
>
>Citing figures from the steering committee report which shows affiliated
>students tend to be mostly white and more affluent than other students,
>Ackerman called the system one of "power and privilege."
>
>Faculty members also said the Greek system promotes excessive alcohol use
>which interferes with students' academic work.
>
>Professor of History Mary Kelly said the number of students who have
>admitted to alcohol interfering with their schoolwork, to have blacked-out
>and to have taken part in "boot and rally" is disturbingly high.
>
>Faculty members said that the "substantial changes" to the Greek system
>recommended in the steering committee report will not reform the
>residential and social life at Dartmouth. They argued the complete
>withdrawal of College support is necessary.
>
>"The reality is that this is an unfixable institution," religion professor
>Kevin Reinhart said.
>
>Professors argued that plans to reform the system have been undertaken
>previously, all of which have failed to improve Dartmouth's social life.
>
>"Isn't it clear by now that reform has not and will not work?" comparative
>literature department chair Marianne Hirsch said.
>
>Faculty members expressed concern that even if the Greek houses are able to
>achieve the stringent requirement set by the Initiative recommendations,
>Dartmouth's social problems will continue to exist.
>
>Reinhart said ensuring that the Greek houses consistently maintain the
>standards will be a constant fight for the administration.
>
>English professor Tom Luxon had other concerns, arguing that the
>recommendations are sending the wrong message to the CFS houses.
>
>The administration is saying "that if they behave well enough, they can
>have the privilege of discrimination," Luxon said.
>
>The faculty of Arts and Sciences unanimously supported the principles
>behind the first three recommendations of the steering committee report -
>which call for the creation of a greatly enhanced residential cluster,
>other spaces and programs for general use and improving residential and
>social life for graduate students.
>
>The faculty agreed the residential cluster should serve educational
>functions as well as recreational, dining and social purposes. Some said
>the educational spaces will improve the out-of-classroom experience and
>encourage student-teacher interaction.
>
>Concern was raised about the costs of implementing the Student Life
>Initiative. However, College President James Wright assured the faculty
>that the Board of Trustees's decision on financing these changes "won't be
>at the expense of academic programs or the financial aid program."
>
>Before deliberating on the steering committee report, Wright also informed
>the faculty about the Trustee meetings held over the weekend - most notably
>the decision to increase the tuition fees by 3.5 percent for the 2000-2001
>academic year.
>
>The faculty voted 82-0 in favor of the Initiative last Winter term after
>the document's release.
>
>(C) 2000 The Dartmouth

I am a Beta Theta Pi alum from George Mason U. and my response to this topic is listed at this greek link.
http://mcrae.ca/greek/dischome.htm
Date: Sun, Feb 19 2000 16:08


Carrie, I agree that many other college campuses will be quick to make a stand on this issue. Whether it be postive or negative. Hopefully other college administrations will be less quick to judge the negative aspects to greek life. I have to question some of the comments made by those officials in the Darmouth Administration. Particularly Professor of Religon Susan Ackerman and her view. From what I have read of her opinion I think she really isnt objective and have the whole picture concerning greeks. Especially the good philanthropic and community service that greeks partipate in. Even those Beta Brothers of mine that excel in academics, sports, and live up to their responsibilities as Brothers. I mean it looks like they are quick to judge and point fingers rather than to work with the Greeks involved. To me it sounds like that administration is being rather discriminatory, pointing/blaming their negative opinions, not respecting/understanding/listening with a open mind what greek life is really all about and that it really should communicate better with that portion of the student body. I believe that my chapter at Darmouth is a very strong and sound chapter. In addition we also have a great chapter at DePauw. The house in Animal House I have heard was a Beta Theta Pi house too. I am sure though that other Fraternities have made that claim also though.

Kevin(Beta Theta Pi Alum) (George Mason '97)

>>
> Dartmouth faculty votes 81-0 to end recognition of greek houses
>
>
> "I wonder what kind of affect this will have on other campuses across the U.S. My understanding is that Dartmouth has one of the most actively Greek campuses, drawing a number of students & acting as the center of social life. (Of course, it's also been said that one of the writers of "Animal House" was a Dartmouth (and Greek) alum. Then again, I've heard the same about DePauw.)
>
> Other schools will definately be watching how they handle this, how the students react, and the results they get. And those administrators who are already anti-Greek may be quick to follow suit.
>
> Just a few thoughts"
> -carrie

Date: Sun, Feb 20 2000 21:38


Carrie, I think your right on the mark with everything you mention with this issue. Yes, GLOs do many things. As a member of Beta Theta Pi at George Mason we had an annual community service event where we would help out with the American Cancer Society raise money. One year I remember we partipated in a Witch Watch where we helped kids during halloween safely trick or treat. One year we helped with a Alzheimer's walk that was also done at the school. These are just a few things. I also believe that GLOs definitely make a great contribution to Student Govt. and believe that there have been GLOs at George Mason that have served in these roles. I do know that for George Mason being mainly a commuter school that the greeks there really do make many things possible for the school and make a impact on the student life. I can also say that because of George Mason being a commuter school that besides sports there really isn't anything other than academics or student clubs so Greeks really make a big impact on campus involvement. I think you make a great point about school pride and speaking from experience I believe strongly that greeks definitely impact school unity. Especially when it comes to rallying for campus activities such as a homecoming football game or a basketball pep rally. Yes, there are many misconceptions about the Greek Community. Well, this is all I have to say for now. Guess, I didn't say enough.

Kevin

> Carrie, I agree that many other college campuses will be quick to make a stand on this issue. Whether it be postive or negative. Hopefully other college administrations will be less quick to judge the negative aspects to greek life.
>
> Kevin
> "From what I have read about the situation, I agree with you. It seems like the administration has done little, if anything, to try and ratify the situation (whatever it may be to them) without destroying a very important part of campus life. Many campuses take for granted everything that GLO's do, both for the campus and the community. How many GLO's participate and help out in how many events.. events that probably wouldn't be pulled off w/ out them? How many student government leaders are Greeks on your campus? How many times a year do the Greeks do things like donate to the homeless, help out kids who are less fortunate, etc. Not to mention I've seen several statistics (from reliable sources & research materials)that state that on average 80 % of alumni donations to universities come from Greek alumni. (Most GLO's intentionally try to foster loyalty to their school). We won't even begin to discuss the statistics on how many leaders, political or otherwise, are Greek.
> Let's face it, many college students are going to drink and do stupid things. With or without fraternities. My understanding from the letter Barbara posted was that Dartmouth intends to replace the housing offered by GLO's with similar housing for students (I assume they will have to meet certain standards, etc.) If they see a problem w/ the Greeks, who are goverened by national bodies and have a LOT of people to answer to when they screw up, I don't know how they think this will work. I can only imagine that similar relationships will form w/ the students living in this housing, although probably not as extreme. I'm sure these students will have their own 'rites of passage' for newcomers to the house. And they will party. Only these students won't be continually doing community service. They won't have the same networking opportunities as the Greeks there now do. And they won't have a national governing body who is checking in on them occassionally to make sure they are operating properly & in a ma> nner that makes the fraternity/sorority proud.
> I think the administration at Dartmouth simply has a misconception about Greeks, Greek life, and the ideals these students uphold daily. Yes, there are some who are just there to party and they slip through somehow. But these students exist on the campus regardless of the presence of GLO's.
> Anyways, that was longer than I intended, so I'll stop while I'm ahead!"
>
> -carrie

[BSUPhiSig'92]

I find it truly ironic that the faculty at Dartmouth's main argument in condemning greek life is that it is an "exclusive" and "discriminatory" institution. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Dartmouth is one of the so-called "Ivy League" schools. By its very nature it is exclusive and discriminatory. Of course most of the greeks are white and affluent, most of its students are! I often have found that the most exclusive, elitist and discriminatory group are the faculty. They are guilty of intellectual elitism and frequently discriminate against students solely on the basis of their membership in a fraternity or sorority. It also seems that some of them view greeks through the cloud of 60's anti-establishment thinking, seeing greek life as some sort of conservative endoctrination program. It makes me glad that I work at a state university where there are constitutional protections against such actions.

[kmullini]

Originally posted by EPOmega:
I found this article on the Internet and responded to the person who posted it…

The Dartmouth Arts and Sciences unanimously approved a resolution, voting 81-0 to urge the administration and Trustees to withdraw College recognition from all Coed Fraternity and Sorority organizations once additional living space is made available…
…Faculty members argued that the system is a discriminatory one>Raising concerns that the CFS system is highly exclusive…
…professors argued that it does not conform but interferes, with the academic mission of the College. The Greek system "stands so antithetical to our academic message of openness," Ackerman said…
…students tend to be mostly white and more affluent than
other students, Ackerman called the system one of "power and privilege…"
…Faculty members also said the Greek system promotes
excessive alcohol use which interferes with students' academic work...
I found the first argument particularly puzzling because you never hear of administration or faculty complaining that the college soccer team was being "discriminatory" when they wouldn't let the fat kid play because he wasn't fast enough. I'm sure he probably really wanted to play and felt really bad when he got cut from the team. He just didn't have what the team was looking for. The situation is really quite the same when you take into consideration the process of rush and getting a bid. Anyone can rush (try out) but there isn't always a place for everyone (get cut).
I go to SUNY Potsdam and anyone is welcome to rush any house they want. Whether they choose to rush or not is their prerogative. Yes, whether they get a bid or not is the choice of the Greek organization. But here a person’s chance of getting a bid is based on many more things that utilize a much more well rounded method of selection than many groups search for physical ability, talents, or achievements. If people feel excluded it's just a fact of life. People are always changing jobs, applying for different things, and meeting new people while constantly risking the feeling of being 'left out.' You cannot however simply write off an entire community because they function through the day to day existence of selection.
If there are issues of concentration in one particular group, it may not be a problem of exclusion but rather one of cultural disinterest on the parts of the groups who seem to be "excluded." I think that as a whole, Greek systems are more culturally, socially, educationally, and economically diverse than any other clubs, interest groups, or sports teams on college campuses. If different socioeconomic groups feel excluded, the Greek system is a perfect way to find a specifically tailored place for different interests. There are many Greek organizations that cater to a specific religion, race, background, creed, and obviously gender oriented groups. They allow people to utilize their most valuable talents and resources for issues very specific to themselves. My sorority was specifically founded on the basis that the Greek organizations that existed at the time did not meet the needs of the people interested in various aspects of SUNY Potsdam's Greek community. They started their own new group 40 years ago. Omega Delta Phi Sorority. We are different from all the other sororities and all the other groups are different from each other and us. Trends are always changing. Interest in Greek life waxes and wanes all the time but you can't discard it because of selection processes.
Greeks consistently go unrecognized in their constant efforts to do good and promote community service. The combined efforts of Greeks on any campus SURELY out weigh the man-hours of service that any other group or club can offer on campus. Greeks combine the benefits of all different groups into one: Friendship, leadership, community service, diversity, special programming (pertaining to academics, social life, athletics, current events and issues) I can't think of any one club on my campus that does all of that. Can you?
People complain that Greek life promotes substance abuse. Well I guarantee that people would be doing the same stuff on college campuses outside of Greek life. It would just be at Independents’ housing, with sports teams and other clubs, local bars, etc. People keep forgetting that it's not a GREEK epidemic, it's a COLLEGE epidemic. Greek life changes with the times. The 60's and 70's social changes found Greek life. Not us them. I think that Greeks actually help regulate some of the substance abuse problems in college life and encourage students to take personal responsibility. They promote working within groups (probably one of the most important components of being successful after graduation) that support the individual members as well as have an underlying theme of working towards common goals: teamwork at its best. It’s true that many Greek organizations need reform on different levels but all groups have their ups and downs. I am a firm believer through my own personal experiences that Greek life helps prepare people for the real world.




WELL SAID!

Kevin Mullinix
Beta Theta Pi alum
Epsilon Mu Chapter
George Mason University

[EPOmega]

I found this article on the Internet and responded to the person who posted it…

The Dartmouth Arts and Sciences unanimously approved a resolution, voting 81-0 to urge the administration and Trustees to withdraw College recognition from all Coed Fraternity and Sorority organizations once additional living space is made available…
…Faculty members argued that the system is a discriminatory one>Raising concerns that the CFS system is highly exclusive…
…professors argued that it does not conform but interferes, with the academic mission of the College. The Greek system "stands so antithetical to our academic message of openness," Ackerman said…
…students tend to be mostly white and more affluent than
other students, Ackerman called the system one of "power and privilege…"
…Faculty members also said the Greek system promotes
excessive alcohol use which interferes with students' academic work...
I found the first argument particularly puzzling because you never hear of administration or faculty complaining that the college soccer team was being "discriminatory" when they wouldn't let the fat kid play because he wasn't fast enough. I'm sure he probably really wanted to play and felt really bad when he got cut from the team. He just didn't have what the team was looking for. The situation is really quite the same when you take into consideration the process of rush and getting a bid. Anyone can rush (try out) but there isn't always a place for everyone (get cut).
I go to SUNY Potsdam and anyone is welcome to rush any house they want. Whether they choose to rush or not is their prerogative. Yes, whether they get a bid or not is the choice of the Greek organization. But here a person’s chance of getting a bid is based on many more things that utilize a much more well rounded method of selection than many groups search for physical ability, talents, or achievements. If people feel excluded it's just a fact of life. People are always changing jobs, applying for different things, and meeting new people while constantly risking the feeling of being 'left out.' You cannot however simply write off an entire community because they function through the day to day existence of selection.
If there are issues of concentration in one particular group, it may not be a problem of exclusion but rather one of cultural disinterest on the parts of the groups who seem to be "excluded." I think that as a whole, Greek systems are more culturally, socially, educationally, and economically diverse than any other clubs, interest groups, or sports teams on college campuses. If different socioeconomic groups feel excluded, the Greek system is a perfect way to find a specifically tailored place for different interests. There are many Greek organizations that cater to a specific religion, race, background, creed, and obviously gender oriented groups. They allow people to utilize their most valuable talents and resources for issues very specific to themselves. My sorority was specifically founded on the basis that the Greek organizations that existed at the time did not meet the needs of the people interested in various aspects of SUNY Potsdam's Greek community. They started their own new group 40 years ago. Omega Delta Phi Sorority. We are different from all the other sororities and all the other groups are different from each other and us. Trends are always changing. Interest in Greek life waxes and wanes all the time but you can't discard it because of selection processes.
Greeks consistently go unrecognized in their constant efforts to do good and promote community service. The combined efforts of Greeks on any campus SURELY out weigh the man-hours of service that any other group or club can offer on campus. Greeks combine the benefits of all different groups into one: Friendship, leadership, community service, diversity, special programming (pertaining to academics, social life, athletics, current events and issues) I can't think of any one club on my campus that does all of that. Can you?
People complain that Greek life promotes substance abuse. Well I guarantee that people would be doing the same stuff on college campuses outside of Greek life. It would just be at Independents’ housing, with sports teams and other clubs, local bars, etc. People keep forgetting that it's not a GREEK epidemic, it's a COLLEGE epidemic. Greek life changes with the times. The 60's and 70's social changes found Greek life. Not us them. I think that Greeks actually help regulate some of the substance abuse problems in college life and encourage students to take personal responsibility. They promote working within groups (probably one of the most important components of being successful after graduation) that support the individual members as well as have an underlying theme of working towards common goals: teamwork at its best. It’s true that many Greek organizations need reform on different levels but all groups have their ups and downs. I am a firm believer through my own personal experiences that Greek life helps prepare people for the real world.

[Texas Alum]

wow. I can't believe that no-one at Dartmouth is considering whether this decision is a violation of the students' constitutional rights to free assembly.

[DeltAlum]

Here are some thoughts for both sides.

For the Administration:

Most Greek unit GPA's are HIGHER than the all male or all female averages on a given campus. In other words, Greeks tend to get higher grades, statistically, than non Greeks.

Second, Greeks tend to give more money to their alumni associations, statistically, than non Greeks.

For our Greek brothers and sisters:

Do you see the handwriting on the wall?

It's time to stop the crying and moaning over dry housing, alcohol and hazing or the Greek System as we know it is history. We can argue this forever, but other university administrations are going to be watching this situation with an eye to doing the same thing.

Let's stop blaming everyone else. It doesn't matter whether the media is fair (by the way, the usually are). And it doesn't matter that, "everyone else does the same thing."

We aren't "everyone else." We are proud members of organizations which hold us to higher standards. We have to prove that this is true. And loudly.

Fraternally,
DeltAlum

[AXPAlum]

Texas Alum,

I think its more complicated than that. All the fraternities and sororities up there have discussed this over and over with their alumni, some whom I'm sure are lawyers. Private colleges and universities are just like a private business. They make their own rules how to run their "company." If you have a dress code policy at your workplace, then this would be a non-greek policy for their school. Unless the students strike or take this to court, nothing will stop them. Your constitutional rights do not exist the same way inside the gates of these institutions.

AXPAlum

[AXPAlum]

We may hold ourselves to higher standards, but I do not recall holding myself to different and unequal standards from the rest of the student body. I would gladly support any policy as long as it was aimed at the entire school, not just one group.

AXPAlum

[DeltAlum]

Hi AXP Alum,

It seems to me that "a higher" standard, by definition, means different and unequal. Think about that. Otherwise, it would be holding ourselves to the same standard.

I'm not arguing that there is anything fair about this situation, but as an alumni advisor (Division Vice President), I tell my chapters that the letters above their door put them under a microscope more often than other groups.

Of course Greeks aren't the only groups with these "problems," but we're the ones under attack. Let's not worry about changing the rest of the world until we're comfortable that we're going to survive ourselves.

And I hope you're right about the Consitutionality of this. It certainly isn't equitible -- but unless it is challenged in court, a university administration can do pretty well what it wants to.

Fraternally,

DeltAlum

[AXPAlum]

DeltAlum,

You are correct, and looking at what I wrote I think I knew what I wanted to say but couldn't word it properly http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Yes, it is a higher standard, but being "above" everyone shouldn't also mean we have less rights than others. I am only giving my opinion on the situation, I have no idea if I am right or wrong about how and why the administration of universities can do all this. I just think standing in the background and allowing all these policies to be implemented without the greek voice being heard isn't fair. If so many are not comfortable with the rules, then stand up and say it. It takes a little work to fight for what you want, and I think everyone is just too scared about losing their charter or money or whatever. I agree though, it's time to stop complaining and pointing fingers; that never accomplished anything. If this is what the students there want, then let it be. If they decide to take action, then it will be a different story.
Has your chapter made a stance on this type of policy? As Division VP you probably discussed this thoroughly with chapters, I'm just curious if there is complete acceptance of the changes or not. As for challenging this in court, I doubt that will ever come unless a fraternity is willing to put up a lot of money for such a cause.

AXPAlum

[33girl]

Dartmouth’s administration trying to eliminate Greeks (and I say trying, because Greek life is so much a part of the school, I have no doubt it will continue underground) doesn’t have a bloody damned thing to do with hazing or alcohol. The Greeks there have made many incremental changes (the only kind that work) to improve both of those situations and it hasn’t made a dent in the faculty or administration’s attitude. The “higher-ups” aren’t stupid. They know eliminating Greeks isn’t going to eliminate hazing or drinking.

The reason they want to get rid of Greeks is because the admninistration are a bunch of cravenly PC idiots who want to mold the students into what they consider the “correct” way of thinking. The Greek houses remain one of the only places where free thought still exists, and that is why the faculty and administration at Dartmouth want to stamp them out.

[DeltAlum]

I truly wish I could agree with you 33, but it seems to me that there have been so many years of problems -- and so much adverse media on the subject lately, that the administration(s) of many schools are using these issues as a means to rid themselves of what they perceive as a potential liability and public relations problem.

PC? Maybe. I'm not so sure.

Deaths due to alcohol and hazing (or both combined) certainly haven't helped the problem.

You know, in theory, we all start(ed) college with a perfect academic record. It always seemed like my GPA went down much faster when I got a C, than it went up when I got an A. It's kinda the same problem with the Greek situation on campuses. It takes a really long time to build a good reputation -- and a very short time to ruin one.

And yes, I've certainly talked with my chapters about these problems. And I tell them this. If you're going to party and drink -- do it in moderation, and nobody will have a problem with it. If you're going to have underage brothers drink, simply remember that it's not just against some rule -- it's against the LAW. There's a big difference. And, of course many, if not most, undergraduates will try alcohol. Just remember moderation.

As for hazing, it is our Division Presidents' position that if there is hazing in one of our chapters, and it can be proven, that chapter will be closed. Period. Delt has no sense of humor when it comes to hazing. By the way, in most states hazing is against the law, too.

Is it fair that hazing is also a part of ROTC, the military, athletics, etc. Nope. But there's nothing we can do about that. But we can do what it takes to clean up our own act.

Fraternally,

DeltAlum

[RUgreek]

Ok, I finally read through everyone's post on this one, wow, I didn't realize that Dartmouth was getting so vicious with the greeks up there. Complete derecognition by 2005 at the latest?? Are you kidding me? Ok, I can understand things getting a little crazy on the campus, but what is going through the heads of the faculty? Coming right out and saying they want the greeks to financially buckle without university support, practically wishing a curse on the same people that go to their classes and pay tuition. That's a pretty ballsy thing to do I think. I'm just glad I didn't go to a backwards conservative close-minded school like that. Never did I think that school would sound so similar to Faber College. I can't wait to see what happens this fall...

RUgreek

[Corbin Dallas]

Anybody ever seen PCU? That's what Dartmouth is beginning to sound like to me. They don't want to step on anyones toes. Next thing you know they'll be opening up a new building, dedicated to bisexual asian studies. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[Serenity]

Anybody ever seen PCU?


Hey, hey! (clap,clap) Ho, ho! (clap,clap) This penis party's got to go! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Serenity (edited August 02, 2000).]

[SigEpYoda]

It's catalogued is made of recyled paper and the team mascot is being changed to the whoping crane http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[Corbin Dallas]

Can you blow me where the pampers is?

------------------
Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

[AlphaChiGirl]

I LOVED PCU...I was totally afraid that my school was going to be like that...but it's not! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif But, the school upon which the writers of PCU based the movie is Wesleyan University, in Connecticut. But, it reminded me of Dartmouth...except just not as darned cold! Has anyone been to that place?

[mwedzi]

The school I transferred to was like that. Hippy liberal arts type. No sororities or fraternities allowed there. We had a reputation for going to class in pajamas (that is, if anyone woke up from last night's drinking/illegal substance) party. To be perfectly honest with you, I'm pretty sure we did have a class on minority lesbian and gay culture. I know we had a gay and lesbian studies sub-department under our super multiethnic/racial/ departments. No joke. I am for real.

Check out this description of one of our classes:
76. Gender and Genre. Generic coding allows for the telling and re-telling of narratives which revel in (white, male, heterosexist) society's "hidden" fears, desires and beliefs. But what happens when the demons, seductresses, whores and monsters of such tales re-vision genre for their own ends? We will consider how horror, melodrama and film noir speak to/for/about women. Prerequisite: Media Studies 50 or Pomona Media Studies 51. A. Juhasz. [not offered in 2000-2001]

It's just one of many. Actually, I thought it was pretty cool that we had classes like that. Anyway everyone there was guilty of I-am-superior-to-the-masses intellecutalism. Me too, at times. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

[SilverTurtle]

Check out this description of one of our classes:
76. Gender and Genre. Generic coding allows for the telling and re-telling of narratives which revel in (white, male, heterosexist) society's "hidden" fears, desires and beliefs. But what happens when the demons, seductresses, whores and monsters of such tales re-vision genre for their own ends? We will consider how horror, melodrama and film noir speak to/for/about women. Prerequisite: Media Studies 50 or Pomona Media Studies 51. A. Juhasz. [not offered in 2000-2001]

HAHA! That's the kind of stuff I'll be studying when I finally return to (grad) school.. gender and pop culture, w/ an emphasis on film http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity (http://www.phibeta.com)
Phi chapter (http://homepages.go.com/~phibetaphichapter/index.html)

[AOX81]

PCU is one of my favorite movies!

Can you blow me where the pampers is? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif That is my favorite line from the movie!

[gphi2k]

This whole discussion is so weird for me to hear because my school refuses to recognize the frats and sorors. We get no support what-so-ever. I'm not sure if we ever did even tho many of the chapters have been around for a hundred years at my school. This may be an ingorant question (it wouldn't be the first I've asked in this forum), but what exactly does that school do to support the greek system? I mean, other that regulatory controls, do they offer any sort of financial support? What would happen if, as on my campus, the chapters existed, independant of their school. We are technically known as the University of Toronto chapter of Gamma Phi Beta, but technically speaking, we are not. We're Gamma Phi Beta, filled with people who go to University of Toronto.
A strange thing about this (and definately unique to my campus) is that the sororities will only admit girls who go to the university (in spite of the lack of recognition) but many of the frats have different policies, some of whom let in men from the other university in the city, and some even allow in men from the colleges in the area. In fact, the one of the chapters (at least) on our campus is comprised mainly of NON university of Toronto students.
There is a huge amount of debate, every year, as to how we can go about getting the school to recognize the Greeks at our school. We try to point out that all of the 'issues' they have with the system, much if not exactly like those of Dartmouth, would be BETTER dealt with and BETTER monitored if school administration took an active role in ensuring that the university's standards are met by all houses. No dice. Will never happen. Every year we seek recogntion, every year we lobby, and every year we are told no. We won't give up but the fight is futile.
Yes, it is true, as I have said in other posts, that the greek community at U of T is very small compared to the school's poplution (60K thousand students, maybe 600 greeks). And it is possible that these small numbers are refelctive of the lack of administrative backing. Personally, I don't think so. I think that the people at my school are just lame. (they are. believe me). It's hard to know for sure if the school supported us, if those numbers would rise.
Is there a possibility that the houses at Darmouth could survive absent support of the school? If our houses can exist, why can't the houses at Dartmouth continue to exist?

Leslie

[This message has been edited by gphi2k (edited February 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by gphi2k (edited February 21, 2001).]

[KSig RC]

According to a kid i knew from high school in a house at Dartmouth, this resolution has done very little - the big enforcement issue? Kegerators, which have been removed. All the houses he knew of were still recognized nationally, and really he said nothing's changed from before. It looks very much like this was more of a PR move by the school - which to me seems to suck, because much more positive PR work could be done by and for the school via cooperation with the greek organizations . . . but i guess the bottom line is that the Dartmouth situation with greek life hasn't really changed a whole lot from before for the majority of (fairly) well-behaved houses.

[Tom Earp]

If YOU will pardon My ignorance, What is this PC thing you are talking about? I have a campus that is tough for Greeks even though a State U.
All I know if it were not for the Greeks what is Homecomeing, Members of comittees, inturmural sports, an dmany other things that the Greeks do. Each of our Houses have philathropic endevors that we raise money for. My Fraternity raises thousands of tons of food each year, my chapter does a Hot-Tub-A-Thon, and many of the LXA Chapters do a Watermelon Fest to raise $. What is the SX Derby Day or any other Fra/Soro do to raise money for the local charitys. Hell with out the Greeks there is a vast waste land of donations! These Acedamia look at only the bad and not the good! If we did not beleive, we would not be on this site. I Gradusated in 1967 and am still active with my House and my International!!

------------------
Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

[Tom Earp]

What a Hoot!! I was just called by my old school to donate MONEY to Them. I informed them that I am donating money to my Fraterity local to build a New House and to Fund our Educational Fund to give the members money so they can affor to go there. I hope I talked this new Frosh into going Greek as she is an independent and has NO CLUE about the Greek Organizations on Campus!!!

[Billy Optimist]

Some one said earlier that the faculty were intellectully etlist. Well at most, if not all, Ivy League schools, one sure way to get in is if your relative went and gave/gives money. This means that the same type of people and their family will be there forever. Maybe since because greeks give more satisticly speaking as alumni/alumnae they are using the greek system as a scape goat, because they want new people to be there. Just a thought...

[33girl]

Tom - PC = Politically Correct. I.E. going to ridiculous lengths to not offend anyone. Unless they're rich white males. Then you can beat them over the head with a brick. Check out "PCU" the next time it's on FX - it's funny, but some parts are so true to life it's kinda not funny. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif

Leslie - recognition by the college or university gives you several advantages. You can use on-campus buildings, you (or more likely, the IFC/Panhel) receives $$ from the student activities fund, and you can advertise and hold your events on campus. Also (but not so much anymore) the college might step in to CYA if you get in trouble.

I don't think recognition will matter at Dartmouth, because the Greeks are around 50% of students, and most students who aren't Greek aren't anti cause all the parties are open. Plus they've got enough $$$ and alumni support to keep it going even if they have to move all their houses to a neighboring town. There's an article on DKE's website in the news section (they have a lot of good stuff on things like this, by the way) where a Middlebury alum said that even though the administration "banned" fraternities, they are still going strong.

Like KSig said, all I have seen on this issue is that they got rid of bars and kegerators. Just a bunch of BS PR.

[straightBOS]

Originally posted by BSUPhiSig'92:
I find it truly ironic that the faculty at Dartmouth's main argument in condemning greek life is that it is an "exclusive" and "discriminatory" institution. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Dartmouth is one of the so-called "Ivy League" schools. By its very nature it is exclusive and discriminatory. Of course most of the greeks are white and affluent, most of its students are! I often have found that the most exclusive, elitist and discriminatory group are the faculty. They are guilty of intellectual elitism and frequently discriminate against students solely on the basis of their membership in a fraternity or sorority. It also seems that some of them view greeks through the cloud of 60's anti-establishment thinking, seeing greek life as some sort of conservative endoctrination program. It makes me glad that I work at a state university where there are constitutional protections against such actions.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[MuAZD]

I've also heard rumors about LaSalle going the same route as Dartmouth (ending Greek Life). I was wondering if anyone else has heard about this, or am I just hearing things. Thanks!

[Billy Optimist]

I can't believe some of the $%!^ that people come up with. The Greek system is mostly made up of white and affluent people??? DARTMOUTH is mostly made up of white and affluent people!!!!
So...are the fraterties there sub-rosa? Do they still have national letters?

[tcsparky]

I was just wondering if anyone knew how many times the Dartmouth administration had approached NPHC groups, or multi-cultural sororities abour expansion to their campus? Unless they were just plainly anti-Greek, it wouldn't make sense to condemn the current system as being elitist and discriminatory without making an effort to bring in other groups. Or perhaps, since they are DARTMOUTH they don't feel they need to make sense........?

[33girl]

tcsparky-

Dartmouth already has chapters of AKA, DST, Alpha Phi Alpha and Kappa Alpha Psi, plus Lambda Upsilon Lambda, which is a national Latino fraternity. They also have 5 co-ed fraternities, most of which I believe have houses. The options are there - it's just that according to Dartmouth's administration, they're not the "right" options. They want to have "theme houses" which to me is just as, if not more discriminatory than they are accusing Greeks of being. Their major gripe against the Greek system is that the students socialize the way they want to socialize, not the way the administration wants them to socialize.

Currently, there is a moratorium on ANY new Greek organizations, so if the male-female ratio is unbalanced or a multicultural org would like to expand there and cannot, it's firstly the administration's fault.

Here is a cool link to follow: http://www.dartmouth.edu/student/cfs/alpha-theta

They have a history of the whole Greek system at the school. As it shows, the Dartmouth students took a stand against the nationals that still had "white clauses" in their bylaws, and disaffiliated if need be in protest. How many other Greek systems at the time could say that?