GAYS IN YOUR SORORITY/FRATERNITY?

[ELEGANTLADY2]

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU FOUND OUT THAT ONE OF YOUR SISTER/BROTHERS IN YOUR ORGANIZATION WAS GAY? THIS IS AFTER THE INTAKE PROCESS IS OVER AND THEY ARE 100% MEMBERS. NOT ONLY ARE THEY GAY BUT THEY ARE OPEN GAY. I ASK THIS BECAUSE I KNOW A SOROR OF MINE WHO IS GAY IN ANOTHER CHAPTER AND SHE SAID WHEN THEM FOUND OUT THEY TREATED DIFFERENT. THEY WOULD SHOW HER LOVE ON THE CAMPUS TO KEEP UNITY, BUT THEY WOULD NOT INVITE HER TO STEPSHOWS, OR ROAD TRIPS. BUT BECAUSE SHE HAD OTHER FRIENDS AT OTHER SCHOOLS SHE WOULD STILL MAKE IT THERE. AGAIN MY QUESTION TO YOU IS DOES THAT GAY SISTER/BROTHER GET THE SAME LOVE LOVE ARE THAT STRIGHT SIS/BRO???

[SilverTurtle]

My fraternity is coed and culturally diverse, and, at least on my campus, there were a couple of gay members. Some of them we knew before they were members, some not. And it was never even an issue. I think that part of this is because of our already diverse environment and mentality as a group. Also, the area the school is located in (and the school itself) has a large gay population, and i don't know anyone at that school who didn't have at least 1 or 2 gay friends.

[Q-T Pie]

I don't think that the person should be treated differently just because they are gay or lesbian. If you call someone your sister or brother on campus only to turn your back on them once you're off campus, you're no better than those who openly talk bad about people. They must know they are being left out if ya'll end up in the same places and they weren't invited. Unity and love for all of your sisters & brothers is only one aspect of Greek Life. By treating a person differently from the rest, you are not exactly practicing what you preach. If you can wear your letters and call one another sister or brother, I think you should truly mean it.

I actually won't be rushing until the fall, but these ideas are ones that I have picked up while I've been visiting this site. I think as long as you and your feelings are being respected then, you give the other person the same amount of respect and treat them no differently.

Allison

------------------
A mistake at least proves that somebody stopped talking long enough to do something. ~ Anonymous

[awatters]

I get along with gays just fine–*I would definitely tolerate a gay brother, because it's the right thing to do.

------------------
andrew watters
Theta Chi (http://www.uclathetachi.org) –*ucla

[mgdzkm433]

I think that this is just one of those issues that doesn't make sense. If people don't allow gays into their orginization or they treat members badly--it's discrimination. Plain and simple. It's just plain stupid in my eyes. There should not even be a problem. I feel that people are an asset for their actions, ideas, and commitment. If someone is gay and they have these qualities, then they will be an asset to any organization they want to join. A person's sexual prefrence has nothing to do with greek orginizations so why is it an issue. If they want to be greek, they have to prove themselves just like everyone else, and they should get the same treatment as everyone else, and they should have the same opportunities as everyone else. If a member is uncomfortable, that's their problem that they have to work out on their own. If the orginization is going to benifit from this person, then they have to put their personal feeling aside and do what is right for the orginization.

Also, not to be disrespectful to anyone's orginizations, but I feel sorry for the people who would treat someone badly for being homosexual. They just weren't blessed with an open mind, respect for other human beings, and confidence in themselves and others.

Just my opinion.

Mikki

[This message has been edited by mgdzkm433 (edited March 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by mgdzkm433 (edited March 24, 2000).]

[Miss Jay]

I don't think you should treat a person different because of their sexual preference I am in an organization and I have a gay sister but, I am the only one who knows and she is not open with it so I pay it no mind but, however I wonder if she did become open with it would it give us a bad name.

[daruler]

I feel that a gay member of your sorority/fraternity should be treated just the way you would treat a gay family member or friend. Even if you disagree with their lifestlye, you still love the person. You know, love the sinner hate the sin.(For those who think homosexuality is a sin.) when it comes down to it, people are still people, no matter what they choose to do. And if you are bothered by it don't be, in the end only God can judge us. I don't see how being gay can affect the organization. It took a long time for minorities to be somewhat accepted in majority white fraternities. I think in time the gay issue will follow suit.

[SouthernGent]

If someone in my chapter turned out to be gay, they would be kicked out of the chapter immediately. It is disgusting and there is no place for it. We are an elite organization. One of the reasons I chose to join my chapter is so I would not have to deal with immoral crap like this. It amazes me how much society has become brainwashed in the last couple of decades. Homosexuality is not okay and is not normal. I really pity all of you weak minded individuals who think otherwise. I know that I will get replies telling me that I am intollerant and close-minded. To those of you who think that: kiss my ass, we'll see what happens on judgement day.

[SilverTurtle]

SouthernGent-

I'm glad that my chapter (+ my entire GLO) didn't have this attitude. I didn't join "an elite organization" so I could discriminate + act better than the rest of the campus. I joined a fraternity because I truly believe the same things that the GLO stands for, and the people are rad, and it offers me the opportunity to do a whole lot of really cool stuff.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com

Phi Beta Fraternity (http://www.phibeta.com)

[SilverTurtle]

Oh, just 2 afterthoughts SouthernGent...

1) I wouldn't be at all surprised if you did have gay brothers and you just don't know about it. Because they know your attitude. Of course, if that reflects your whole chapter, I doubt they would join in the 1st place.

2)If you do "find" a gay brother (that sounds like a witch-hunt!) and proceed to "kick him out immediately" I hope your chapter (and nationals if applicable) is prepared for an immediate lawsuit.



------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity (http://www.phibeta.com)

[mgdzkm433]

GLO's are social organizations, not religious. We don't pray, we don't read the BIBLE, we do community service. Which leads me to the next question.

Speaking of witch hunts. . . what would you do if you found out one of your members is a witch?



------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[ELEGANTLADY2]

WELL I A DO AGREE WITH SILVER TURTLE. YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL THAT WAY. AND I DON'T KNOW ANOT YOUR ORG. SouthernGent BUT WHEN i JOINED THEY SAID ONCE A MEMBER ALWAYS A MEMBER SO HOW DO YOU FELL YOU CAN PERSONALLY KICK SOMEONE OUT OUT THE ORG. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE THAT MEMBER. THAT PERSON WILL BE THERE ON JUDGEMENT DAY ALONE. LET THEM DEAL WITH THAT. AND I DO NOT BELIVE THAT "society has become brainwashed in the last couple of decades." IF I MAY USE YOUR WORDS. SOCIETY HAS JUST DECIDED TO EMBRACE THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN REJECTED FOR SO MANY YEARS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHO HAVE WHAT SEXUAL INTREST, YOUR CLOSES FRIENDS OR OTER MEMBER MIGHT HAVE THE INTREST. BUT IT IS OK AND I DON'T KHINK YOU ARE CLOSED MINDED BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN OPINION, AND SO DOES EACH AND EVERYONE ELSE, AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES UP DIFFERENT. WEATHER IT IS SIZE, RACE OR SEXUAL INTREST. WE NEED TO EMBRACE EVERYBODY AND GIVR THEM THE SAME OPPROTUNITY THAT WE HAD. NOW THE NEW QUESTION FROM mgdzkm433, LET LOOK AT THAT IN A Y2K PERSPECT, WHAT IF YOU FOUND OUT ONE OF YOUR MEMBERS WERE HIV +? HOW WOULD YOU TREAT THEM? CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR YOU HAVE TO SAY ON THIS ONE!!!!!!! :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) REMEMBER IT IS GOOD TO SMILE AND BE HAPPY IN LIFE.:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

[mgdzkm433]

Are you asking me what I would do or what southerngent would do about members diagnosed with AIDS? You didn't say anything about witches? I want to know feeling on what people would do about witches in their organization.

[33girl]

Well, we had a lesbian in our chapter a few years after I graduated. I admit, I was a bit taken aback at first, but after awhile I didn’t even think about it. She was not trying to “make a statement” or anything (as a matter of fact, she was closeted at first), she just liked our company and wanted to be a part of us. If someone would have the attitude of “I’m gay and you have to accept me or else you are homophobic” I think I’d be the first one to kick their ass out of there. That goes for anyone, actually.

And guess what? We had a Wiccan too. As far as people acting “witchy” that is another story! 

[mgdzkm433]

witchy? How do you act witchy? Just wondering. Most wiccans practice witchcraft, most---not all.

[SilverTurtle]

Mikki-
Let me just say that I'm glad Fred no longer posts here after the question you just asked!!

And what would I (or the chapter) do? Nothing.. unless they were casting spells on members or something psycho. Of course, if they were spells to heal sickness or other good things, then what would you do? Interesting.

Seriously, though, I do think that would make some people uncomfortable. However, knowing the members of my chapter + the kind of people they are, they wouldn't kick them out or treat them badly. I do think some members would request that the witch (or warlock if applicable) didn't practice their witchcraft in their presence. (Out of respect for their individual beliefs). Not that I think too many witches practice in front of non-witches anyways.

Point is, it's just another belief. And as long as they're not shoving it at the chapter or letting it negatively affect their involvement, why should you have a problem with it? If you personally do, and you choose to try + get them 'out' of witchcraft, as their friend/sister/brother I think that's okay. As long as you accept them even if they stick with it + the group doesn't chastise them.

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity (http://www.phibeta.com)

[mgdzkm433]

The reason why I asked this question is to sort of get a point across. I didn't have any negitive responses, which is good. Many people have a missconception of witchcraft and the religion known as wicca. Most people believe that witchcraft or wicca is the craft of the "devil." Which is completely untrue. Witches and wiccans (even pagens and occult members) have been given a bad name for centuries. None of these believe that there even IS a devil. The whole concept was created by Christians. Before Christianity was "popular" per say, many people lived in tribes. Each tribe had a type of "witch." Most didn't call themselves witches though. These witches were the tribes law, educator, wise man, leader, healer. It is a religion based on nature and 2 deities. One being a Goddess and the other being a God. The Goddess rules the earth and the Moon, while the God (the horned god) ruled the sun and the animal kingdom. Christians, in order to further their religion, came to the tribes and told them that their God (the horned god) was a bad god and that he was a devil. Many people converted because they were then afraid. Those who didn't convert were killed. It is called the Burning Times. It is estimated that between thousands to millions of people were put to death because they were considered witches. This misconception of witchcraft, and the religions surrounding it, has lasted even to this day. It is not so prominant today, but many people who practive do it in private because of the fear of society. These people are just like us, they work, they have kids, they shop at the grocery store, they eat at McDonalds. You would probably never know if you were sitting next to a witch.

Anyway, the point I'm getting to. Many people have a missconcepting about homosexual people. People don't understand and therefor come to conclusions that are, more often then not, completely untrue. Are we going to weed these poeple out? Are we going to discriminate against them because they feel and believe something different than we do? Are we going to repeat history? My example and the situation involving homosexual people are more alike than most would agree. Don't let yourself be drawn in by misconceptions. You won't know what it is like to be in their shoes, until you experience the same things. Open you eyes and your mind. Who says it's evil? The Bible? The Bible also says "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank IS in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from you own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from you brother's eye. Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." Matthew 7: 1-6

Judgement day will come. We each stand on our own on that day. Untill then, God states that we shall NOT judge one another, or it will come back to us on OUR judgment day. "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." John 8: 7
Please don't lay your judgment on others, not only for their sake, but your own.

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[Alumnus who cares]

I feel that a chapter should not discriminate against ANYONE, including gays. We have had at least a couple of gay brothers in our chapter over the past 10 years or so. One of them didn't come out until his final semester, and even then it was only to a couple of brothers. The other one didn't come out until after he graduated (although most suspected he was gay anyway). Still, for the most part, both of these brothers were discreet about their orientation, and an outsider might not have guessed that they were gay.

There is one thing to consider though, and that is the reputation of your chapter if someone is especially flamboyant, or hits on other guys in public while wearing your letters, goes to parties dressed in drag, etc. Even if that person's fellow brothers like him, think he's a good guy, etc., people from other chapters may form an opinion of your house and spread rumors that may hurt your chapter's reputation. People might start forming general opinions of your house as a whole, and that could hurt your chapter in terms of social aspects and especially membership.

While a house should not kick out or ostracize a member because of his sexual orientation, I wonder if it would be in the chapter's power to ask that member to "tone down his act," or if that would be considered infringing on his rights.

[mgdzkm433]

I can see where you are coming from. There is a time and a place for everything. Both sides should be made aware of this. In making it clear to the members who are gay that you want them to "tone" down a bit, remember that this is who they are, This is something that they feel, not something that one day they just decided to do because they thought it was cool. However, these members should have enough common sense to know that dressing in drag (if that is something they enjoy, I realize that not all gay members of the community do this) is not something that should be done during a meeting. As for parties, Have fun with it! Some of the most fun people I know are gay. You know why? They have had to overcome obsticals (coming out, slander, discrimination) that a lot of people would never understand. They have delt with more serious personal issues, and have learned not to let it get to them. In this lesson, they have learned that when it's time to be serious, they are serious, and when it's time to party, Hey anything goes. If they enjoy dressing in drag, have a drag party! Have all the brothers dress in drag! Now wouldn't that be a hoot. Instead of asking them to tone it down, join him for a night and see what kind of fun you can stir up. I'm not suggesting that you adopt that members way of life (unless you want to), I just suggesting that you enjoy him in the kind of atmosphere he enjoys. I'm sure he would be more than willing to lend you one of his wigs! You can have all sorts of theme parties that might help you and him feel more comfortable. For instance: A tropical Island theme. Everyone dresses up in accordance to the theme. He might show up in a bikini top, some lays, a grass skirt, and a Dolly Parton wig. He will feel comfortable, and people who don't know he's gay might think he's just a guy who decided to be funny. There, everyone can enjoy themselves.

Anyway, Just a suggestion. Just remember, there is a time and a place for everything. That goes for everyone.

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[SilverTurtle]

I'm LMAO at the thought of all these big, jock, fraternity guys throwing a drag party!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[mgdzkm433]

Hey! If ya can't beat'em, JOIN'EM!! Who can throw a better party? Big Jocks? OR Drag Queens? I'm gonna go with Drag Queens! More exciting! PLUS, you can have a great time and enjoy yourself, because no guys are going to hit on ya. . .great for girls night out!!

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[SilverTurtle]

Mikki,

I can do nothing but agree!

------------------
SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity (http://www.phibeta.com)

[babyface1914]

If was after the fact, the bond would be there IF he was from my chapter and i "got with him". If he portrayed gay qualities on line i would have done my best to drop him. Sorry, but Im not with it.

[ELEGANTLADY2]

Well that is a good way to fell but there people are not being welcomed into there organizations. If you are open gay or lesiban you should be treated the same way as a st8 person. and babyface1914 "If was after the fact, the bond would be there IF he was from my chapter and i "got with him". If he portrayed gay qualities on line i would have done my best to drop him. Sorry, but Im not with it." That is not good to feel this way. If you would accept it after than you should not try to hender the person from getting. :-)

[equeen]

Mikki, have you read Marion Zimmer Bradley's "The Mists of Avalon"? I think you might like it, if you're interested in Wicca. At any rate, it's a good read.

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
The reason why I asked this question is to sort of get a point across. I didn't have any negitive responses, which is good. Many people have a missconception of witchcraft and the religion known as wicca. Most people believe that witchcraft or wicca is the craft of the "devil." Which is completely untrue. Witches and wiccans (even pagens and occult members) have been given a bad name for centuries. None of these believe that there even IS a devil. The whole concept was created by Christians. Before Christianity was "popular" per say, many people lived in tribes. Each tribe had a type of "witch." Most didn't call themselves witches though. These witches were the tribes law, educator, wise man, leader, healer. It is a religion based on nature and 2 deities. One being a Goddess and the other being a God. The Goddess rules the earth and the Moon, while the God (the horned god) ruled the sun and the animal kingdom. Christians, in order to further their religion, came to the tribes and told them that their God (the horned god) was a bad god and that he was a devil. Many people converted because they were then afraid. Those who didn't convert were killed. It is called the Burning Times. It is estimated that between thousands to millions of people were put to death because they were considered witches. This misconception of witchcraft, and the religions surrounding it, has lasted even to this day. It is not so prominant today, but many people who practive do it in private because of the fear of society. These people are just like us, they work, they have kids, they shop at the grocery store, they eat at McDonalds. You would probably never know if you were sitting next to a witch.




[This message has been edited by equeen (edited April 13, 2000).]

[equeen]

oops...didn't mean to copy the entire message! My bad!

OK, I finally realized there was an edit feature on this thing! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by equeen (edited April 13, 2000).]

[mgdzkm433]

Thank you, I will look into it. I'm not just interested in it, but I am a Christian Wiccan. It sounds impossible, but I am working on a study of both Christianity and Wicca and how the two can be incorporated into one. I'm actually working on a book for other people out there that believe the same things as myself.


------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[hhhhh]

I admire those who are open about their sexuality. They should not be treated differently.

[fratchick]

we've got one lesbian in our chapter (she came out after freshman year), and she's treated the same as everyone else - her girlfriend comes to formal and other events.
it has served to show that we are NOT all about guys, obviously there is an aspect of sisterhood there too.

[gibnor]

Originally posted by daruler:
I feel that a gay member of your sorority/fraternity should be treated just the way you would treat a gay family member or friend. Even if you disagree with their lifestlye, you still love the person. You know, love the sinner hate the sin.(For those who think homosexuality is a sin.) when it comes down to it, people are still people, no matter what they choose to do. And if you are bothered by it don't be, in the end only God can judge us. I don't see how being gay can affect the organization. It took a long time for minorities to be somewhat accepted in majority white fraternities. I think in time the gay issue will follow suit.

If someone hides their sexual preference in order to become a member of your organization that person is not true to them selves. The person that was let into the organization was a person of good quality, character, and moral standards. If you join an organization and then show your true self all that you went through is for nothing. Our society embraces to many things that are not good for the society. If we contiue we are going to embrace or encourage drug user's. Now is that an okay thing to do? Of course it's not but that is where we are headed. We as the younger portion of society have to set morals and live by them and pass it on to our childerns, cause if we don't we will be dealing with a society with that is headed to damnation.

[mgdzkm433]

all I have to say is oh no. . .is your name fred?

[elizabethatl]

I am a sorority alumna who went to a rural university in a Southern state. Only after transferring to a more urban school after my second year, could I "come out". I always wondered if I would have been kicked out of my organization if I'd stayed. I held many high offices and had just been elected VP/Pledge Trainer when I decided to leave. I have avoided members in the sorority at the university where I am now pursuing my Ph.D. and alumni chapters who have contacted me. I am happy to see that most of you are open-minded. I was initiated in 1990. Something tells me that you are not in chapters in the South or in rural areas.
After transferring and coming out, I visited some of my sisters with my girlfriend at the time. A couple of them were full of questions. I heard shortly after that one of them came out. I've heard she's had a hard time of it living in that small town.
Perhaps things are changing within the chapters these days. I wonder how it is possible to find gay/lesbian members/alumni of particular sororities/frats. I suspect that it would be difficult

[awatters]

women love gay men. It's a proven fact. Gay men are "safe" and non-threatening, and they can talk about fashion intelligently. D.amn!

[RedAngel]

Mikki,
I feel that as long as a personal accepts the principals of their GLO or BGLO their religious belief shouldn't come into play. When I was a junior in college, I was a member of the literary club and we had received a submission from a student who was a known Wiccan. Apparently the manuscript needed some help but nobody knew how to approach this person (I guess they thought she would hex them). Since, I was the last one to join the group, I was given the task. She was very nice and appreciated that somebody took the time to talk with her. She made the changes and it was published. I ended up good friends with this person who explained to me what Wicca was. I'm staying with my denomination--I can see where they go through a lot because of the stereotypes that are out there.

[mgdzkm433]

Yes, I don't believe that anyone's religious beliefs should be taken into account when applying for membership into any greek organiziation. Wiccans, pagans, occult members and witches are widely recognized as being devil worshipers. That couldn't be further from the truth. But I won't get into that here.

I have grown up in a rural area all my life and I went to a school in a rural area. Nobody ever had a problem with gay and lesbian students on campus, and I don't think that we would have a problem with one of them pledging any of the greek organizations. Even if they come out AFTER initiation, I don't think anyone would really care. That happened to one of the professional organizations on my campus, and i would have to say that if any of the members were even close to being homophobic, it was the guys big brother, but he got over it and they were still really close friends.

[cubscout#7]

Its always so funny when fraternity and sorority members talk about not on my line or not in my chapter.Being openly gay and gay are two different things.

Theres a good possibility one or more of your founders was gay or bisexual.And whether you know it or not, whether you want to admit it or not quite a few of your brothers are gay or bisexual.

Atleast Omega Psi Phi embraces Langston Hughes, a Que they're proud of, but a Que who was gay.

[BigGrin]

So here is the deal,
Next year I will be heading off for college,
Ive been to some rush parties (yes already) and I even got a bid. . .which I accepted
The thing is, if you didnt notice from the title... I'm bi (it's acually more confusing than that, but we don't have the time http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif) and the thing I'm worried about most of all, more than leaving my parents, more than tuition and scholarships, is what to do about this situation.

I read some of your other post and they all seemed pretty motivational (cept for Fred and his buddies http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif). But i'm still nervous cause I know the contents of this board cannot reflect the entire fraternity system.

So what should i do? Should I :
1)play it off the whole for years I'm there and just not ever let them get to know the real me?

2)or give them time to warm up to it and tell them one by one?

3) or should this be the first thing out of my mouth when they open the door to great me.

I would normally opt for #2, but i have heard that may cause a ruckus because i wasnt honest with them to begin with.
and #1 and #3 have their obvious disadvantages.

I'm totally lost here guys, any and all info would be helpful
Thanx for reading all that http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

PS::: I'm no flammer



------------------
I sought My God and I could not see
I sought my soul and it alluded me
I sought my brother and found all three

[Melchisedic]

Homosexuality may be condoned by society, but not God. If you choose to be an enemy of God, then that's your choice.
mzdgkm,
If it's not about religion, why are your rplies full of religious rhetoric? You can make every foolish attempt to mix witchcraft and Christianity together, but it won't work. That's why society is so messed up now. People trying to make Christianity into a religion. Homosexuality is an abomination. The only thing that can be offered to a homosexual is Jesus, and a changed lifestyle. Homosexuality does not make any common sense either. What is it's purpose, except pleasure. NONE!

[IWANNABEASOROR]

In my bible it also says
judge not lest thou be judged. And Christ says Love others as I have loved you. I dont think you read the entire book. No one filled with as much hate as you could love my God.

Youre mean.God will deal with you.

[Kurious Kitten]

Melchisedic,

You claim that homosexuality serves no purpose except pleasure - If such is the case then by your same logic do you or will you only engage in heterosexuality (namely sexual intercourse) for the sole purpose of procreation of the species? While I have my personal opinions on sexuality, sexuality and the expression of such is also an intimate way that humans can express thier love for one another.

In addition, many christian sects have condoned homosexuality and the sexual practices. While others recognize the tendancies, yet make no formal union through which it is acceptable (ie marriage), and condemn any actions on the tendancies.

[mgdzkm433]

Foolish attempt? Are you saying that faith in oneself and in one's belief is foolish? You are condeming me for what I believe? Who are you to judge me? In my humble opinion, Religion is not just something you go listen to a preacher or priest talk about. There is a deeper meaning. It is felt in your heart, mind, and soul. You can think whatever you want about me, I don't care. As long as I believe that my religion is right for me and it makes me happy, nothing anyone thinks or says makes a difference. People have every right to practice whatever religion they believe. You can think I'm foolish if you want, but how will you know how foolish I am until you feel what I feel, see what I see, and do what I do? Religions are based on faith. Whatever I want to practice or worship IS possible as long as I have faith in it. Think I'm foolish all you want, your opinion of my faith doesn't matter.

I never said that homosexuality has NOTHING to do with religion. Go back and read. I said that Religion has nothing to do with GLO's, not homosexuality. I also never made religous refrences to anything. I asked what people would do if they found out a member was a witch. I then gave a background of the basic religion most witches follow, so as not to mislead anyone. You obviously have misread something, so I urge you to go back and read again. I reread the posts I wrote so as to see what you might have thought. Yes, I did quote a passage from the BIBLE. However, I did NOT bring the religious part into this conversation. If you go back and read, I only stated first that sexual prefrence has nothing to do with GLO's, then, someone else brought in the religious aspect. When they became negative and began judging, I countered their response with the passage. I did not make religious refrences towards GLO's or Homosexuality. I made a religious comment to an individual. I still stand by my comment that GLO's have nothing to do with religion. Neither does homosexuality have anything to do with GLO's.

Another thing. Christianity isn't a religion? What is it then? Christianity is one of, if not the, mostly widly recognized religion in the world. You're telling me that these people's faith is wrong? Any faith is good and right for an individual as long as it makes them happy. If you want to get technical, Christianity is recognized and protected by law as a religion in the US, so is neo-paganism, wicca, and occult beliefs.



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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[mgdzkm433]

Oh, and I forgot to mention. If you had also read one of my previous posts, I stated that not all wiccans practice witchcraft, not all but most. The same goes for pagans and occult member. You see PAGANISM(wich includes all of the above) is a religion. WITCHCRAFT is not. The two are totally different. I for one do NOT practice witchcraft at this point in time. SO, I suggest you do a little reading and educate youself on the subjects of paganism and witchcraft before you come in and make 1) and ass of yourself, and 2) assumptions about other people and religions. Thanks.


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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[kj0423]

You need to be open to all people. In order to be "elite" or special, you need to act that way and by being discriminating you are not meeting the standards of your organization.
Many campuses such, as Penn State, have lesbian sororities. Panhellenic does support this organization and I strongly suggest others to do so.
It is an incredible opportunity to learn!

Kelly-Jean Erwin
Alpha Delta Pi Sorority
Delta Kappa Chapter
Penn State University

[Diva_56]

Originally posted by mgdzkm433:
The reason why I asked this question is to sort of get a point across. I didn't have any negitive responses, which is good. Many people have a missconception of witchcraft and the religion known as wicca. Most people believe that witchcraft or wicca is the craft of the "devil." Which is completely untrue. Witches and wiccans (even pagens and occult members) have been given a bad name for centuries. None of these believe that there even IS a devil. The whole concept was created by Christians. Before Christianity was "popular" per say, many people lived in tribes. Each tribe had a type of "witch." Most didn't call themselves witches though. These witches were the tribes law, educator, wise man, leader, healer. It is a religion based on nature and 2 deities. One being a Goddess and the other being a God. The Goddess rules the earth and the Moon, while the God (the horned god) ruled the sun and the animal kingdom. Christians, in order to further their religion, came to the tribes and told them that their God (the horned god) was a bad god and that he was a devil. Many people converted because they were then afraid. Those who didn't convert were killed. It is called the Burning Times. It is estimated that between thousands to millions of people were put to death because they were considered witches. This misconception of witchcraft, and the religions surrounding it, has lasted even to this day. Anyway, the point I'm getting to. Many people have a missconcepting about homosexual people. People don't understand and therefor come to conclusions that are, more often then not, completely untrue. Are we going to weed these poeple out? Are we going to discriminate against them because they feel and believe something different than we do? Are we going to repeat history? My example and the situation involving homosexual people are more alike than most would agree. Don't let yourself be drawn in by misconceptions. You won't know what it is like to be in their shoes, until you experience the same things. Open you eyes and your mind. Who says it's evil? The Bible? The Bible also says "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank IS in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from you own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from you brother's eye. Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces." Matthew 7: 1-6

Judgement day will come. We each stand on our own on that day. Untill then, God states that we shall NOT judge one another, or it will come back to us on OUR judgment day. "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." John 8: 7
Please don't lay your judgment on others, not only for their sake, but your own.




Yes The bible says do not judge, but the bible says that homosexuality is wrong also. You cannot take one verse, and not all verses with God word. I have no problem with the PEOPLE themselves, I actually have a problem with the actual doing of these things because I know that the devil is a liar (yes there is a devil read the word) and are deceived into thinking the devils way. Its not about judging, it's about speaking the TRUTH! Yea I do have a problem with a wiccans ACTIONS because they are occultic pratices of the devil (YES THE BIBLE SAYS IT WRONG! READ YOUR REVELATION!) So don't take anything a christian says the wrong way. We state the truth according to the word of God. We also understand that there are people that feel diffently. We respect the people, but not the CHOICES to disobey God. Hey Just my 2 cents. Please no rude responses, I came as a lady and I feel I would be treated as one on this board...


As for the main topic. I personally would not care if a gay person was a part of my sorority. I do admit I would be weary, but if they are good people, it should not be a problem. Just think of all the undercover homosexuals that there could be among you already. Be tolerant of people. It is a command by God you know?

Blessings to all



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In complete darkness we are all the same... It is only our knowledge and wisdom that separates us... Don't let your eyes deceive you

The Diva Truth

[wassup]

The name of this web site, greekchat.com, is misleading. They should rename it religiouschat.com.

[Serenity]

LOL! Cute.....real cute.

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Sincerity, Loyalty, Unity

[mgdzkm433]

I'm sorry to say, but you are very misinformed as to what Wicca is. I urge you to read up on the subject of Wicca, paganism and Occultism. But because you said this in a Public forum, I feel I must come to defend my religion. Again, I have to state this because there is a HUGE misconception of wiccans. Wicca is religion based on NATURE, NOT the devil. There IS NO devil in the wiccan religion. The DEVIL is a creation of the CHRISTIAN religion. Paganism has been around LONG before Christianity. The idea that the God in Pagan beliefs is the Devil was brought on by Christians trying to convert pagans. Wiccans have never believed in a devil and will continue to never believe in the devil. They do not worship the devil they have never worshiped the devil. And OCCULT is different than a CULT. In order to make accusitions against people, please read up on the subject. A CULT can be of any religion, even christians. OCCULT is another form of a pagan belief wich DOES NOT believe in the devil.

As for Reciting from the BIBLE. I can say don't judge. Even if the BIBLE does say it is wrong to practice homosexuality it in not our place to condemn these people or the acts they preform. That is up to GOD, and he tells us that. You don't HAVE to agree with ANYTHING anyone does, but judging others will bring a more harsh judgement day for yourself, and that is also stated in the BIBLE. And I will give you another quote: "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." John 8:7 Yeah. . .everyone in some aspect is in direct violation of the Bible, so don't act so pompus and as you are higher or better than anyone. The BIBLE says not to be hypocritical--and that is exactly what you are doing. So if my practicing wicca is going to fall on my head come judgement day, so be it, but it is NOT up to you to tell me that or to pass judgement on me. That would put YOU in direct violation of the BIBLE as well. Don't tell me not to quote the BIBLE because I am not taking into account all the facts, niether are you. Like I said NOBODY has to agree with anything I do, but it is not up to you to pass judgement. And the BIBLE says that.

Also, You can't publicly write the things you said without expecting someone to disagree or be rude. The fact of the matter is, you are passing along false information about wicca and the false information is negative. I have to defend myself and my religion because the ignorance and misconception about my religion has to stop. If I were to state false information about Christianity, I would be very embarassed and displeased with myself and I would definatly expect someone to correct me. That is what I am doing. The idea that Wiccans, Pagans, and Occultist even BELIEVE that there is a devil, let alone WORSHIP a devil is absurd. I don't want false information to be passed on so that there are more uneducated people in this world. If you don't know all the facts, I strongly urge you to read up on the subject, and by read up, I mean books other than the BIBLE. Read some of the history of paganism and wicca. Wicca is actually only 60 years old and was put together by a man by the name of Gerald Gardener. A good book to read in order to obtain the facts (and a good beginners book), is "Guide for the Solitary Practisioner" by Scott Cunningham. It's not very expensive and I'm sure it would set you straight on the subject. It's ok that you are misinformed. It has been this way since the begining of Christianity. But if you post something false about my religion in public, I will try to educate you and the readers.

There are as many interpretations of Religion,and any and all Religious works out there, as there are people in this world. Let people live. Let people worship what they want or believe in. We are NEVER in this lifetime going to be able to say who is right or wrong. If judgement is going to be passed on anyone, let it fall on judgement day. And let us not cast stones at one another and be hypocritical.

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at: http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[This message has been edited by mgdzkm433 (edited May 12, 2000).]

[JPHHSM]

So, uh...does anyone have any experiences or opinions they would like to share about gays in your fraternity or sorority?

[dc1]

Originally posted by JPHHSM:
So, uh...does anyone have any experiences or opinions they would like to share about gays in your fraternity or sorority?

[mgdzkm433]

Thank you for sharing your story. You had a lot of good things to say, and a lot of great points.

[Alumnus who cares]

I agree; that is a good story. It takes a lot of courage to come out to your brothers and to be able to talk about it like you did. It sounds like you have a very supportive and mature group of brothers. Hopefully the rest of your campus Greek system will be as open-minded and supportive as your chapter is.

[dc1]

Wow, great story. I am glad to hear that your brothers were accepting! Best of luck to you and your house... keep us informed.

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Faced with the Divine, I was asked; "What one gift do you seek?"
I answered ever so meekly; "I seek Honor, Truth, Integrity, and Wisdom, yet those are four. How am I to choose?"
The answer came as a pounding whisper; "The four you seek are but one. I grant thee Compassion; for without it the four make none."
Author - me

[True Greek Love]

I think a person's sexual preference/orientation should have nothing to do with their ability to do the best they can for their organization and represent their org to the fullest. I think if the members of that particular person's chapter all have a stong sense of identity than they should be able to handle that person's sexuality. How can organizations that claim to be service organizations fighting for the better good of not only their community, but the world, excercise prejudice against someone for being gay/lesbian/bisexual...it's almost hypocritical...As long as that person is conducting themselves in a respectful manner as should anyone wearing letters be doing than there is no problem in my book....I am sure that there are alot of homosexuals in greek orgs now...they are just afraid to come out of the closet due to the ignorance of others or fear of acceptance. I respect those who have been brave enough to do it (come out that is) and are saying to the world "this is who i am, love me or leave me alone!"